§ The persons liable to maintain a defective under the age of twenty-one against
248§ Question put, "That the Question, 'That the remainder of the Clause (13) stand part of the Bill,' be now put."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 144; Noes, 22.
247| Division No. 222.] | AYES. | [3.4 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Goldstone, Frank | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Griffith, Ellis Jones | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Adamson, William | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | O'Dowd, John |
| Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) | Gulland, John William | O'Malley, William |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Arnold, Sydney | Hackett, J. | O'Shee, James John |
| Baird, J. L. | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Barton, William | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Hayden, John Patrick | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Geo.) | Hazleton, Richard | Pryce-Jones, Colonel E. |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Higham, John Sharp | Reddy, M. |
| Boland, John Pius | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Redmond, John (Waterford) |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Howard, John Geoffrey | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Brace, William | John, Edward Thomas | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Brady, P. J. | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Brunner, J. F. L, | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Cawley, H. T. (Lancs., Heywood) | Joyce, Michael | Rowlands, James |
| Chancellor, H. G. | Keating, Matthew | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Kelly, Edward | Samuel, Samuel (Wandsworth) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Kilbride, Denis | Seely, Rt. Hon. Colonel J. E. B. |
| Clough, William | King, J. | Sheehy, David |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Lardner, James C. R. | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N.W.) |
| Cullinan, John | Levy, Sir Maurice | Stewart, Gershom |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Lewis, Rt. Hon. John Herbert | Srauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Lundon, T. | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Dawes, J. A. | Lynch, A. A. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Delany, William | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Dickinson, W. H. | McGhee, Richard | Tennant, Harold John |
| Doris, William | Macpherson, James Ian | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Duffy, William J. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otley) | M'Laren, Hon. F.W.S. (Lincs., Spalding) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Marks, Sir George Croydon | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Meagher, Michael | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Meehan, Patrick J. (Queen's Co., Leix) | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Millar, James Duncan | Wiles, Thomas |
| Essex, Sir Richard Walter | Molloy, Michael | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | Morgan, George Hay | Williamson, Sir Archibald |
| Ffrench, Peter | Morrell, Philip | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Field, William | Muldoon, John | Wing, Thomas Edward |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | Munro, R. | |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. William Jones and Mr. H. Webb. |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Nolan, Joseph | |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| NOES. | ||
| Barnston, Harry | Greene, W. R. | Martin, J. |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hodge, John | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Clynes, John R. | Hogge, James Myles | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Denison-Pender, J. C. | Horner, Andrew Long | |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Jessel, Captain H. M. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Wedgwood and Mr. Goldsmith. |
| Gibbs, G. A. | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | |
| Gilmour, Captain John |
Question accordingly, "That the remainder of the Clause (13) stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.
§ whom an order to contribute towards his maintenance may be made under this Act shall include the step-parent and, in the case of illegitimacy his putative father and, if the judicial authority having cognisance of the case thinks fit, a person other than his putative father cohabiting with his mother: Provided that where 249 a defective is an illegitimate, and an affiliation order for his maintenance has previously been made on the application of his mother under the enactments relating to bastardy, the judicial authority shall not (unless in view of the special circumstances of the case he thinks it desirable) make an order for contribution against the putative father, but may order the whole or any part of the payments accruing due under the affiliation order to be made to the local authority or such other person as may be named in the order, to be applied towards the maintenance of the defective.
§ Captain JESSELI beg to move to leave out the Clause. I am well aware of the fact that this Clause is taken from the Children Act, but at the same time I wish to point out to the House that it was not in the original Bill and was only passed at one of the last meetings of the Grand Committee upstairs, nor was it in the Bill last year. I cannot understand why the step-parent is put in, because he has evidently had no satisfaction in the matter at all and he is made liable for something with which he has had nothing to do whatsoever. It does seem hard upon a woman who is left a widow that she may not get married again because there may be a defective child, and anyone who wishes to marry her may have this liability thrust upon him. Surely that cannot be a good thing. Then as regards the rest of the Clause, proceedings would probably be taken against the putative father if the woman does not pay the sum. I should have thought that that sum was attachable, or that, at all events, the mother would in any case contribute that sum towards the maintenance of the child. As regards the third category, of persons other than the putative father cohabiting with the mother, that has to be proved in a court. I should think it would be a very difficult thing to prove, and therefore unless the Home Secretary can give a very good reason for the retention of the Clause I do not think it can do any good in the Bill, as it would put a hardship on a respectable woman by making her chance of getting married worse than it otherwise would have been.
§ Mr. WEDGWOODI beg to second the Amendment. I think the Clause put in upstairs is quite unnecessary, and that it would bring a number of innocent people within the scope of the law.
§ Mr. McKENNAI am quite ready to meet the substance of the Amendment and to omit the words "the stepparent and." It will then only include the putative father, who is now made liable up to the age of twenty-one, which is quite a proper position, and where the local authority finds a person other than the putative father living with the mother, I think the public should not be put to the expense of the illegitimate child. If this other person is living with her, and perhaps preventing her earning her own living in support of the child, that person should be made liable. I hope the hon. Gentleman will accept that.
§ Captain JESSELI beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Mr. McKENNAI beg to move that—
§ Mr. WEDGWOODI have an Amendment that comes before that. I am asking that the persons already liable to support the defective should not include any relation, male or female, of less than twenty-one years of age or a mother who works for a weekly wage. Surely it is not unreasonable that these people should be excluded. I think the Home Secretary should accept that Amendment. I understand he is going to move the Closure on the rest of the Clauses. Do let us have this to set off against the rest. I only ask that people under twenty-one—
§ Mr. McKENNAMy hon. Friend is in error. No such person could be liable. The only case it is proposed to meet is that of a putative father, who it is not supposed will be under twenty-one years of age. I do not think that will be likely, particularly as mental deficiency will not be proved until the child is three or four years of age. Consequently the parent must be extremely young.
§ Mr. WEDGWOODIt is not a question of the parent, but of other relations.
§ Mr. McKENNAThey are not liable.
§ Mr. WEDGWOODThere was a case the other day of a girl made to contribute to the support of her mother in the work-house.
§ Mr. McKENNAShe was not her illegitimate mother.
§ Mr. WEDGWOODThis Clause does not deal only with the illegitimate. It 251 deals with legitimates as well as illegitimates, only the House seems to have illegitimacy on the brain. I think these people should not be made liable to maintain the defective. I beg to move.
§ Mr. MARTINI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Question, "That the words proposed be there inserted in the Bill," put, and negatived.
§ Mr. McKENNAI beg to move to leave out the words "the step-parent and" ["shall include the step-parent and"].
§ Question, "That those words stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.