§ SIR F. BANBURY (City of London)I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies what portion of the £35,000,000 Transvaal Loan, whether allocated by the late or the present Government, has been exclusively devoted to the British population and what portion exclusively to the Boer population.
§ THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Mr. CHURCHILL, Manchester, N.W.)I would refer the hon. Baronet to my written reply to him of the 16th May last, and also to my reply on 30th of May, † to which I am not able to add anything.
§ MR. LONSDALEI beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies what are the special circumstances which distinguish the Trans-
† See(4) Debates, clxxiv, 1080–2, clxxv., 68.842 vaal at the present time from the other responsible self-governing Colonies which have induced the Imperial Government to guarantee a loan of £5,000,000 for the Transvaal; and whether it is part of the understanding upon which the guarantee is given that the Chinese coolies whose licences expire this summer shall be repatriated and that no licences shall be renewed.
§ MR. CHURCHILLThe special circumstances which distinguish the Transvaal from other responsible self-governing Colonies are to a large extent matters of history, but when the proper time comes to introduce the necessary Loan Bill in this House they will be fully examined and explained by the Minister responsible for that measure. For the second part of the Question I must refer the hon. Member to my Answer of Tuesday last and to the conversation which arose upon it. ‡
§ MR. CHURCHILLNo such Bill can be introduced until a similar measure has passed through both Houses of the Transvaal Legislature.
§ MR. HAROLD COX (Preston)I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in the course of the negotiations with General Botha that led up to the promise that His Majesty's Government would ask Parliament to guarantee a loan of £5,000,000 to the Transvaal Government, any attempt was made to secure from General Botha an undertaking that His Majesty's Indian subjects would be treated at least as well as immigrant aliens from Southern and Central Europe.
§ MR. CHURCHILLThe question of the position of British Indians in the Transvaal was one of the matters which were discussed with General Botha; but the discussion had no connection with the promise given by His Majesty's Government that they would invite Parliament to guarantee the Transvaal Loan.
§ MR. LYTTELTON (St. George's, Hanover Square)Before the Government pledged themselves to give this
† See pp 483–4.843 guarantee, had any representations been made to them, orally or in writing, by Members of this House, to the effect that the Chinese must be repatriated?
§ MR. CHURCHILLNo representations of a special character that I am aware of were made, other than the statements which have been freely made during the last two years.
§ MR. LYTTELTONWhat does the right hon. Gentleman mean by representations of a special character? Were representations made in writing, or by deputations or otherwise, by Members of this House?
§ MR. CHURCHILLNo, Sir. I have no knowledge of anything that affords the slightest foundation for such a suggestion. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will lot us know the evidence on which he has thought it right to make the suggestion.
§ MR. HAROLD COXThis is an Indian question after all. May I ask again whether General Botha gave any assurances in the course of conversation with the Government?
§ MR. CHURCHILLHe did give an assurance that, in regard to the regulations to be framed under the Asiatic Ordinance, he and his Government would endeavour to remove from the regulations some of the points on which they have been criticised. But any such changes had better be examined when they are made the subject of public statement in the Transvaal Legislature.
§ MR. FELL (Great Yarmouth)I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the reason for the exceptional course proposed to be taken with regard to the Transvaal loan; and why that Colony, which possesses such wealth and resources, should be favoured more than the other relatively poorer Colonies of South Africa, which are equally suffering from the depression consequent on the cessation of the expenditure of the war.
§ MR. CHURCHILLI have nothing to add to the Answer which I gave to the hon. Member for York on Tuesday.
§ MR. FELLI beg to ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies if any official record was kept of the discussions and negotiations which took place between the Government and the Premier of the Transvaal relative to the proposed guarantee of the Transvaal loan; and, if so, whether a summary of them will be presented to the House.
§ MR. CHURCHILLThe Answer is in the negative.
§ MR. LYTTELTONAre we to understand that before the introduction of this Loan Bill the House is to have no information as to the special reasons which induced the Government to advance, on the credit of the nation, a further £5,000,000 to the Transvaal?
§ MR. CHURCHILLI am sure the right hon. Gentleman will recognise that when a Loan Bill is introduced into the House of Commons substantial arguments must be adduced by the Minister making that proposal, and no doubt the foundation for such an argument would be the publication of Papers. I expect Papers will be laid on the Table before the Bill can be introduced; but in any case the House alone can be the judge.
§ MR. LYTTELTONA moment ago the right hon. Gentleman said that Papers would not be laid.
§ MR. CHURCHILLI stated to the House that no summary of the discussions and negotiations would be laid on the Table; but it is quite possible that, when the Transvaal Government have passed the Loan Bill through both Houses of their Legislature, there will be correspondence between the two Governments of an official character which I should think would very likely be entirely suited for publication.
§ MR. LYTTELTONWhen will the Loan Bill be introduced in the Transvaal Legislature?
§ MR. CHURCHILLI am not always able to predict the course of business in this House, and still less in the Transvaal Legislature.
§ MR. FELLI beg to ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies, 845 whether, having regard to the Customs Union of the South African Colonies, the Premiers of Cape Colony and of Natal wore consulted in the negotiations which took place with regard to the proposed guarantee of the Transvaal loan.
§ MR. CHURCHILLThe Answer is in the negative. The proposed loan has nothing to do with the South African Customs Union.