§ Order for Second Reading read.
1287§ MR. T. E. ELLIS (Merionethshire),in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, the object of it was to secure public right of access to the mountains and waste lands in Wales, and also to the rivers, lakes, and streams. It provided that any pathway that had been used for any five successive years during the last 49 years should be again used by the public. There was every safeguard in the Bill for the rights of landowners and tenants. He hoped that the House would be able to give a second reading to the Bill, and that any Amendment considered necessary might be made in Committee.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(Mr. T. E. Ellis.)
§ MR. SWETENHAM (Carnarvon, &c.)said, the Bill began with a recital which, he ventured to think, was certainly not founded upon fact. It began by stating that, "whereas, according to ancient Welsh tradition, certain mountains and lakes were free and open." He ventured to say there were no such traditions worthy of any kind of consideration as was suggested with regard to these; they were simple fancy, and had no foundation in fact of any sort or kind. The Bill then went on to speak of access to uncultivated land, rivers, lakes, streams, and ancient pathways. With regard to the use by the public of the so-called uncultivated mountain land a great question might arise as to what was really uncultivated mountain land, because some lands might be considered uncultivated, although they were cultivated to the greatest possible extent they were capable of. Some of those mountains could only be used for certain purposes; they were high land, and their general use was for sheep-walking. They were fenced in, and therefore the first principle of cultivation was advanced; but, then, what else was done? A person who understood how to deal with the sheep walks properly, regularly cut the heather every year, so that it might grow again, for it was not the longest heather which was good for the sheep, but the young shoots which sprang up when it was cut. In the same manner the fern was cut, and the young shoots were eaten by the sheep. If that were not done, no sheep could possibly exist and thrive on the place. Was not that 1288 cultivation? It seemed to him that it was so, and that that was the only kind of cultivation the mountain lands were capable of. The Preamble went on to say that the doubts about the access to these places checked the visitors to Wales. He should be very sorry to do or say anything to check the visitors coming to Wales, but then the Bill went on to say that such doubts tended to the detriment of the residents. He would like to know what residents? If it really meant the lodging-house keepers he could understand that they might wish to have people coming to fill their houses, who would overrun the country, and do as much mischief as they possibly could. He could not understand how any other residents could possibly benefit by allowing people to come in vast numbers and overrun the mountains and lakes, to the detriment of the owners of the mountain land, and particularly of the occupiers. It appeared to him that, so far as the tenants of the land were concerned, who desired to keep their sheep undisturbed, especially in certain seasons, lambing time, and so on, great injury would be done to them if these people were allowed to overrun the land. He therefore ventured to think that that part of the recital was wrong. The Bill then went on to provide that—
From and after the passing of this Act, the public shall have free right to enter upon, and access to, mountain land, moor, or waste land, and access to and walk along the bed or bank of any river, stream or lake, and ride in any boat upon any river or lake for the purpose of recreation, or winberry gathering, or scientific research.
§ It being Midnight, the Debate stood adjourned till Friday next.
§ Debate to be resumed upon Friday next.