§ (9.) £246,082, to complete the sum for Superannuations and Retired Allowances.
§ MR. CONYBEAREI do not wish to enter into a long discussion of this Vote; but the hon. Member the Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Jackson) will recollect that in the early part of this Session I asked him for a Return which I had previously—last year—asked the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Henry H. Fowler) for. It was a Return respecting the general superannuation list and pensions; and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhampton gave me to understand that it was a Return which ought to be issued, I do not think, however, that it has been issued yet.
§ MR. JACKSONI think it has been issued.
§ MR. CONYBEAREVery well, then. I do not wish to delay the Committee in the matter.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ (10.) £11,800, to complete the sum for Merchant Seamen's Fund Pensions, &c.
§ (11.) £470,000, to complete the sum for Pauper Lunatics, England.
§ (12.) £49,500, to complete the sum for Pauper Lunatics, Scotland.
§ (13.) £1,259, to complete the sum for Savings Banks and Friendly Societies' Deficiency.
§ (14.) £982, to complete the sum for Miscellaneous Charitable and other Allowances, Great Britain.
§ MR. CONYBEAREThere is here an item of £1,000 under the head of "Printing of Almanacs under the Great Seal." I should like to know whether this is a permanent charge or whether it is one of those diminishing charges which will disappear in the course of time? If it is the latter, I will say no more about it.
§ MR. JACKSONI believe it is a permanent charge. A certain pension was granted to particular individuals in view of the taking over of the printing of almanacs,
COLONEL NOLANDoes the Secretary to the Treasury think that the people in respect of whom these pensions were granted are alive? I wish to draw attention to one item in this Vote. I find that we have here an item respecting persons who gave assistance to the British Army in 1803 and 1814, the amount being £270. It appears, therefore, that the latest of these services were rendered 73 years ago, and, in order to qualify themselves for the money, the people must at the time they rendered the assistance have been 14 years of age. That would make the recipients of the grant 87 years old at least. I think it is a very likely circumstance indeed that people, under this state of facts, are going on drawing their annuities long after they are dead. At any rate, I think there is fair ground for asking the Secretary to the Treasury to give some attention to the matter with the view of ascertaining whether the recipients of the pension are alive.
§ MR. JACKSONI quite agree with the hon. and gallant Member that this is a case which the Treasury might very properly look into. Before coming down to the House I did make some inquiries into the matter. I am assured that the items are carefully examined and looked into, and that the persons entitled to this money are themselves receiving it. As the lion, and gallant Gentleman will understand, the number of persons who receive the payments is a diminishing quantity. I believe that the attention which has been from time to time drawn to this matter has been of great service. It has shown the evils which have arisen under the present system; and I now hope that we shall hear no more of pensions being paid to persons long since dead.
§ An hon. MEMBER: How old arc the persons receiving these pensions?
§ MR. JACKSONI do not know when they were born.
§ Vote agreed to.