HC Deb 28 July 1887 vol 318 cc358-60
MR. P. J. O'BRIEN (Tipperary, N.)

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether his attention has been called to the address of the honourable Justice Harrison to the Grand Jury, at the Summer Assizes at Nenagh, County Tipperary, on the 12th instant, in which the following passage is reported:— These were the entire cases to go before the Grand Jury, and he should say that it was a very satisfactory state of things to be found to exist in this very fine and important county, and he was very nappy to be able to congratulate the Grand Jury upon it. So far as he could judge from the official records, the county wag in a most peaceable condition, and he sincerely hoped that such would continue; whether this condition of the county, as stated by Judge Harrison, has been verified by other Judges on Circuit to the same effect; and, whether he can state the grounds on which the County of Tipperary has been proclaimed?

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY (Colonel KING-HARMAN) (Kent, Isle of Thanet)

(who replied) said: The Government could not consider the state of the County of Tipperary solely as exemplified by the information before the Judge of Assize. There is a great deal of intimidation existing; 110 persons are reported as more or less affected by Boycotting. Violent Resolutions are adopted at meetings and reported in the Nationalist Press, and a large number of persons require special protection to preserve them and their property from outrage.

MR. P. J. O'BRIEN

In what portion of the county docs this state of things exist?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

I have not the papers with me stating the exact localities; but it prevails in several parts of the county. The Southern portion, I think, is the worst.

MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.)

As this county is proclaimed under the first four clauses of the Criminal Law Amendment (Ireland) Act, which change the trial of indictable offences, and provide for a special jury in any case, I wish to ask if it can be alleged, on the authority of the Judge of Assize, or on that, of any official, that in any case local juries have failed to give a conviction where a conviction was due to justice?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

I shall be obliged to have Notice of that Question. I think I might refer to the Assizes of last year. [Cries of "This year!"]

MR. MAC NEILL (Donegal, S.)

I would ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman whether it is not a fact that at the Spring Assizes of this year the Judge complimented the Grand Jury of Tipperary on the peaceful condition of the county?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

I am afraid my memory will not carry me back so far.

MR. MAC NEILL

said he would refresh the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's memory by repeating the Question on a future day.

MR. ANDERSON (Elgin and Nairn)

May I ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman from whom these Reports come which are alleged to be confidential; and if there is any objection to place a Return on the Table of the number of cases reported, and a copy of these Reports?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

The Reports come from the officials of the counties, in whom we have full confidence. They are the same men employed by previous Governments, and no well-sustained complaint has been made against them. Of course, we cannot place on the Table confidential Reports.

MR. MOLLOY (King's Co., Birr)

asked, was it not a fact that these Reports were sent by the Chiefs of Police?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

No, Sir; the Government, in the first instance, receive Reports from the Divisional Magistrates.

An hon. MEMBER

Landlords.

MR. MOLLOY

asked, had not the Resident Magistrates these statistics submitted to them before they were sent to the Irish Office?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

The statistics do not in all parts of Ireland represent the real state of the country.

MR. SEXTON

I wish to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, if he can throw any light upon a subject respecting which the Parliamentary Under Secretary is in complete darkness—it is, why 14 counties in Ireland have been proclaimed in respect of those sections which relate to forcible possession and assaults upon police officers and other ministers of the law? I wish also to ask the right hon. Gentleman, if he is aware that the official Reports of the Inspector General show that in these 14 counties so proclaimed not one of either of these two classes of offences has been committed or reported during the present year? I would ask, Sir, how it is that these 14 counties, which the Inspector General reports have been so completely free from crime for so long a period as half a year, are now proclaimed?

THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR) (Manchester, E.)

I have before stated, in reference to the subsections to which the hon. Gentleman refers, that, in my opinion, it would have been more desirable if the House had followed the example set in regard to the first sub-head of Sub-section 3, and made it a part of the general law of the land.