COMMITTEE. [Progress 24th May.] (Hansard, 28 May 1886)

§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSS (Lancashire, S.W., Newton)
I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill a question on a subject which, in some parts of the country, is considered of importance—that is, the subject of areas. It has been already mentioned in the discussion on the Motion for the second reading of the Bill, and I am under the impression that the right hon. Gentleman said he would make inquiries in the matter. For the sake of putting myself in Order, I shall move to strike out the words "police district," in the first line of the clause, for the purpose of inserting the word "hundred." It appears to me that the Bill, as it is drawn, will very much alter the incidence of the rate. I take the case of my own county. It is divided into hundreds, which are, for all money purposes, found to be satisfactory; we have hundred rates, and if a disturbance should take place in Liverpool or in Manchester I am convinced that the people living in the northern part of the county would feel it a very great hardship if they are called upon to pay for the first time for damages caused by riots with which they have nothing to 419 do. This system of hundreds has worked perfectly well; it is well understood; and, therefore, I ask the right hon. Gentleman why, for the purpose of this Bill, he has taken the police districts? I am aware that he has placed a clause in the Compensation for Damages Bill, which provides that the police district shall be the rating area. That may be quite right; but I do not think the analogy holds in the case of the counties, some of which are very large, and where it would be a great hardship for the inhabitants at one end of the county to be called upon to pay for the damage done at the other.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. CHILDERS) (Edinburgh, S.)
It is quite true that in Lancashire the hundreds have certain duties with respect to bridges, and there is in the Highways Act of 1878 a provision that the rating area should be the hundred. That is the only county, I believe, where this is the case, except possibly Gloucestershire, about which I am not quite certain; but these are the only two counties, at any rate. I have taken pains to look into this matter in consequence of the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman opposite, and have arrived at the conclusion that it is better to adopt the police area for the purpose of this Bill.

§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH (Bristol, W.)
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the trouble he has taken in this matter; but yet I do not think he has quite answered the contention of my right hon. Friend that the county of Lancashire is so large that a rate to pay for the damage caused by a riot at one part of it would be regarded as a tax for the purpose of repairing injury with which the people in another part of it had nothing to do. I have suggested that it would be better to take a different area, and I do not see why the Union area should not be adopted, which would practically come to the same thing in the end, and would be felt to be more 420 uniform—that is to say, more just to the large areas and less burdensome to the small.

MR. CHILDERS
I have a primâ facie objection to this proposal, founded upon the different bodies of police in counties; but I will take the subject into consideration before the Report.

§ MR. TOMLINSON (Preston)
I ought to apologize to the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary (Mr. Childers) for not having put the few Amendments I desire to move on the Paper, in order to enable him to understand them the better. I rise now to move an Amendment, in line 21, to leave out the words "published in The London Gazette," in order to insert the words "laid before Parliament." We are very familiar with regulations which are framed to carry out Acts of Parliament, and we are aware of the difficulties which have arisen in consequence. This clause appears to give very extensive powers of making regulations to the Secretary of State; and I submit that the proper mode of dealing with the matter is to provide that the regulations which he may frame shall be laid upon the Table of this House.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. CHILDERS) (Edinburgh, S.)
I can assure the hon. Member that these words are merely formal, for the regulations must, of course, be published. Does the hon. Member mean, however, that the regulations shall be laid on the Table of the House in order that they may be open to revision by the House, or in order that the public shall know of them?

§ MR. TOMLINSON
What I was in hopes of was that the right hon. Gentleman would have given us some actual precedent for the course which has been adopted in regard to this clause. I should like to know whether it has ever 421 been the case that an Act of Parliament has been administered by the Secretary of State publishing regulations in The London Gazette?

MR. CHILDERS
Oh, yes, Sir; that is so. There are hundreds of Acts of Parliament which have been administered in that way; but, as a matter of fact, that does not happen in this case.

§ MR. TOMLINSON (Preston)
I beg to move to omit Sub-section 2 of this clause. It may be proper that the County Court should have jurisdiction up to £100; but what I want to know is, what is there in these matters to take them out of the ordinary rule as to jurisdiction? I submit that there is nothing to take them out of the ordinary rule, and therefore I move to omit the words.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. CHILDERS) (Edinburgh, S.)
It is thought that those are just the sort of actions that will be taken under this Bill. I hope the hon. Member will not press his Amendment.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. CHILDERS) (Edinburgh, S.)
I now beg to move the following new Clause:— The police authority of any district other than the City of London or the Metropolitan Police District may, if they think fit, within one month after the passing of this Act, by order declare that claims for compensation under this Act may be made in respect of losses sustained within such district during any period not exceeding; twelve months next before the passing of this Act, and thereupon the said authority may allow such compensation (if any) as they think fit, and the compensation so allowed shall be paid in accordance with the provisions of this Act with respect to riot expenses in like manner as if such expenses had been incurred after the passing of this Act. A Secretary of State shall have power to make special regulations under this Act for the 422 purpose of any claims for compensation to be made in pursuance of this section. There are some verbal Amendments to the clause which I will put into the hands of the Chairman.

§ MR. CARVELL WILLIAMS (Nottingham, S.)
I shall be glad to have an assurance from the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department that he will promptly exercise the power given to him in the clause in regard to the making of special regulations for the purpose of any claims for compensation made in pursuance of this section. I ask for this because only one month is allowed during which the police authorities are to receive claims and adjudicate upon them.

MR. CHILDERS
Yes, Sir; I think that that may be promised.