§ [Progress 31st May.]
§ Bill considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ Clause 7 (Members of General Council).
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)I beg to move, in page 5, line 5, to leave out "two" and insert "three," the object being to give one more representative on the Medical Council to England.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRI beg to move to leave out the word "Durham," in consequence of the Committee having agreed to give the University of Victoria a separate representative.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 8 (Regulations as to election of representatives of the medical profession).
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)There are a series of Amendments here, Sir, which are purely technical, the object being to leave out the words "representatives of the profession," in order to insert the words "direct representatives."
§ Page 5, lines 35 and 36, leave out "the representatives of the profession," and insert "direct representatives;" page 6, lines 2 and 3, leave out "representatives of the profession," and insert "direct representatives;" line 4, leave out "representative of the profession," and insert "direct representative;" line 9, leave out "registrar," and insert "president;" lines 11 and 12, leave out "representatives of the profession," and insert "direct representatives."
§ Amendments agreed to.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRI beg to move in page 6, line 30, leave out from 1426 "returning officer," to "voting paper," in line 33, both inclusive, and insert—
branch council in any part of the United Kingdom in which an election is to be held, to cause a voting paper to be forwarded by post to each registered medical practitioner resident in that part at his registered address.This Amendment and the next two or three refer to the fact that in the Bill the election of the direct representatives are to be made by a Central Council. It has been represented to me that the Branch Council in Ireland should be allowed to elect its own representative, and the Branch Council in Scotland its own representative, and the Council in England its representative, instead of the whole of the elections being centralized in London. The following Amendments are to carry that out.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Page 6, lines 34 and 35, leave out "returning officer to forward such voting paper," and insert "branch council to cause such voting paper to be forwarded;" line 38, leave out "returning officer," and insert "registrar of the said branch council;" line 40, after "two," insert "or more."
§ Amendments agreed to.
§ On Motion of Dr. FOSTER (Chester) the following Amendments made:—Page 6, line 40, leave out "two," and insert "one or more;" line 42, leave out "two," and insert "as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected."
§ Clause, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 9 agreed to.
§ Clause 10 (Revision of Constitution of General Council).
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)I propose to leave out this clause, in order that, subsequently, a new clause may be moved.
§ Motion made, and Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.
§ Clauses 11 and 12 agreed to.
§ Clause 13 (Medical diploma of colonial and foreign practitioner when deemed to be recognized).
§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND (Hampstead)I wish to ask whether the 1427 Privy Council should have any right to interfere in this case? The Medical Council is made the judge as to whether a diploma is sufficient or not; and I should like, therefore, to know why this power should be given to the Privy Council? I beg leave to move to leave out sub-section (2).
§ Amendment proposed to leave out sub-section (2).—(Sir Henry Holland.)
§ Question proposed, "That sub-section (2) stand part of the Clause."
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)The reason is this. It is important that foreign diplomas should be recognized; and, therefore, it is necessary to give the Privy Council this power.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause agreed to.
§ Clauses 14 to 17, inclusive, agreed to.
§ Clause 18 (Default of General Council).
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)I move, Sir, that the clause be left out, in order to bring it up in a new form.
§ Motion made, and Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.
§ Clauses 19 and 20 agreed to.
§ Clause 21 (Saving as to practice of existing practitioners).
MR. J. B. ROBERTS (Carnarvonshire, Eifion)On behalf of my hon. Colleague (Mr. Rathbone), I beg to move in page 13, line 24, at the beginning of the clause, to insert—
The object of the Amendment is this. The Bodies referred to in the Amendment not only examine in medicine, but also in surgery and midwifery, and the object is that the examination being extended to the two latter as well as the former the qualification shall also be so extended. I do not understand that there is any objection to the principle, although most of the Corporations object to it because the candidates have to pass not only the University of Edinburgh, we will say, but also the College of Surgeons, and to pay an additional fee for it. The only advantage there is in it is that they are called upon to pay a double fee for practically the same issue.
- "(1.) Every person who on the day preceding the appointed day is registered as a medical practitioner in respect of any qualification granted by any of the colleges or other bodies mentioned in Schedule (A) to "The Medical Act, 1858," and who as a condition of obtaining such qualification was required by the college or body granting the same to pass, and did pass, an examination conducted by such college or body in medicine, surgery, and midwifery, shall be entitled on and after the appointed day to all the powers, privileges, and immunities conferred by the Medical Acts on persons registered thereunder in respect of a qualification or qualifications to practise both medicine and surgery, or conferred by this Act on medical practitioners registered on or after the said appointed day, anything to the contrary in the Act of the fifty-fifth year of the reign of King George the Third, chapter one hundred and ninety-four, or in the Medical Acts contained notwithstanding.
1428 - (2.) A certificate purporting to be under the seal of such college or body, and stating that such person, as a condition of obtaining the qualification in respect of which he is registered, was required to pass and did pass such examination as in this section mentioned shall be primâ facie evidence in all legal proceedings of the truth of the matter therein stated.
- (3.) Except as is by this section provided."
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)I am sorry to say that it is impossible to accept this Amendment, because it would practically be repealing various Charters which have from time to time been granted to Institutions throughout the Kingdom. Rightly or wrongly these Charters have been given, and exist at the present time; and the object of the hon. Member is, therefore, one which is outside the scope of this Bill.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clauses 22 to 24 inclusive, agreed to.
§ Clause 25 (Repeal of enactments in schedule).
§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND (Hampstead)This clause says—
The Acts mentioned in the first part of the schedule to this Act are hereby repealed to the extent mentioned in the third column of the said part; and the Acts mentioned in the second part of the said schedule shall be repealed on and after the appointed day to the extent mentioned in the third column of the said last mentioned part; provided that the repeal enacted by this section shall not affect anything done or suffered, or any right or title acquired or accrued, before 1429 such repeal takes effect, or any remedy, penalty, or proceeding in respect thereof.I propose to omit the words in italic in order to insert—On and after the prescribed day as used in part two of this Act.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 15, lines 31 and 32, to leave out the words "on and after the appointed day," and insert the words "on and after the prescribed day as used in part two of this Act."—(Sir Henry Holland.)
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Sir LYON PLAYFAIR) (Leeds, S.)I now propose the clause which I wish to substitute for Clause 10, which we have just struck out. This clause relates to the constitution of the General Council, and gives to it considerable powers to add to, or subtract from, its numbers according as it considers it expedient. I would call the attention of hon. Members to the provision for the election of a direct representative in Sub-section (c) as follows:—
That it is expedient to confer on the registered medical practitioners resident in any part of the United Kingdom the power of returning an additional member to the General Council.Therefore, the General Medical Council, if it thinks the number of direct representatives is not sufficient, is able to add to it.
§ Amendment proposed, in page 7, after Clause 9, insert the following Clause:—
§ (Revision of constitution of General Council.)
- "(1.) The General Council may at any time represent to the Privy Council all or any of the following matters:—
- (a) That it is expedient to confer on any university or other body in the United Kingdom capable of granting a medical diploma, not being one of the constituent bodies for the time being of the General Council, and being, in the opinion of the General Council, of sufficient importance to be worthy of such a privilege, the power of returning a member to the General Council, either separately or collectively, with any other body or bodies in the same part of the United Kingdom capable of granting a medical diploma;
- (b) That it is expedient to confer on any constituent body for the time being returning a member to the General Council collectively with any other body or bodies, and being, in the opinion of the General Council, of sufficient importance to be worthy of such a privilege, the power of returning a member to such Council separately;
- (c) That it is expedient to confer on the registered medical practitioners resident in any part of the United Kingdom the power of returning an additional member to the General Council;
- (d) That it is expedient that any constituent body having, in the opinion of the General Council, so diminished in importance as not to be entitled to such privilege, should either be wholly deprived of the power of returning a member to the General Council, or be deprived of the power of returning a member separately, and permitted to return a member collectively with some other body or bodies.
- (2.) The Privy Council, before considering such representation, shall cause the same to be laid before both Houses of Parliament.
- (3.) If either House of Parliament, within forty days (exclusive of any period of adjournment for more than one week) next after any such representation has been laid before such House, present an Address to Her Majesty declaring that such representation or any part thereof ought not to be carried into effect, no further proceedings shall be taken in respect of the representation in regard to which such Address has been presented, but if no such Address is presented by either House of Parliament within such forty days as aforesaid, the Privy Council may, if they think fit, report to Her Majesty that it is expedient to give effect to such representation, and it shall be lawful for Her Majesty by Order in Council to give effect to the same, and any Order in Council so made shall be of the same validity as if it had been enacted in this Act."—(Sir Lyon Playfair.)
§ Clause brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRThe next clause I have to move deals with the default of the General Council, and is in place of Clause 18. It puts the interference of the Privy Council in default of the General Council in a more moderate way.
§
Amendment proposed, in page 12, after Clause 18, insert the following Clause:—
(Default of General Council.)
If at any time it appears to the Privy Council that the General Council has failed to secure the maintenance of a sufficient standard of proficiency at any qualifying examinations, or that occasion has arisen for the General Council to appoint assistant examiners under this Act for the purpose of examinations held by any medical corporation, or to exercise any power or perform any duty or do any act or thing vested in or imposed on or authorized to be done by the General Council under the Medical Acts or this Act, the Privy Council may notify their opinion to the General Council; and if the General Council fail to comply with any directions of the Privy Council relating to such notification, the Privy Council may themselves give effect to such directions, and for that purpose may exercise any power or do any act or thing vested in or
1431
authorized to be done by the General Council, and may of their own motion do any act or thing under the Medical Acts or this Act, they are authorized to do in pursuance of a representation or suggestion from the General Council."—(Sir Lyon Playfair.)
§ Clause brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRThe next clause is designed to include a degree given by the King's and Queen's College of Physicians in Ireland, a degree lately adopted and not provided for in the Act of 1858.
§
Amendment proposed, after the last new Clause, to insert the following Clause:—
(Addition to qualifications under 21 and 22 Vict. c. 90.)
The diploma of Member of the King's and Queen's College of Physicians in Ireland, and the degree of Master in Obstetrics of any university in the United Kingdom, shall be deemed to be added to the qualification described in Schedule A of the Medical Act, 1858."—(Sir Lyon Playfair.)
§ Clause brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRThe next clause, with a small M.S. addition, is one that has excited considerable interest. It is to enable medical practitioners who have diplomas or certificates for proficiency in sanitary science, public health, or State medicine to have those diplomas or certificates registered. The clause, as it is upon the Paper, says—
Every registered medical practitioner to whom a diploma for proficiency in sanitary science, public health, or State medicine, has, after special examination, been granted by any college or faculty of physicians or university in the United Kingdom shall, if such diploma appears to the Privy Council or to the General Council to deserve recognition in the medical register, be entitled, on payment of such fee as the General Council may appoint, to have such diploma entered in the said register, in addition to any other diploma or diplomas in respect of which he is registered.The MS. addition I propose is to insert, after the words "United Kingdom," the words—or by any such bodies acting in combination.
§
Amendment proposed, to insert the following new Clause:—
(Registration of diploma in sanitary science.)
Every registered medical practitioner to whom a diploma for proficiency in sanitary science, public health, or State medicine, has,
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after special examination, been granted by any college or faculty of physicians or university in the United Kingdom, or by any such bodies acting in combination, shall, if such diploma appears to the Privy Council or to the General Council to deserve recognition in the medical register, be entitled, on payment of such fee as the General Council may appoint, to have such diploma entered in the said register, in addition to any other diploma or diplomas in respect of which he is registered."—(Sir Lyon Playfair.)
§ Clause brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
§ MR. PULESTON (Devonport)Does this make registration compulsory?
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRNo; the registration will take place if the General Council thinks that such recognition is deserved.
§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND (Hampstead)I may, perhaps, be allowed to ask a question, the answer to which may cover a good many of the Amendments. Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that the word "diploma," as defined in the Definition Clause, will have a sufficiently wide application to cover "qualification." The clause says—
The word 'diploma' means any diploma, degree, fellowship, membership, licence, authority to practise, letters, testimonial, certificate, or other status or document granted by any university, corporation, college, or other body, or by any departments of or persons acting under the authority of the Government of any country or place within or without Her Majesty's dominions.
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRThe term "qualification" is only used in the Bill in regard to qualifying examinations in respect of which degrees are given qualifying persons to practise. A man may be an efficient medical officer of health for a town, although he does not possess a qualifying degree. A degree is in addition to having passed an examination under the Act.
§ SIR HENRY HOLLANDI understand that; but I am told that the word "qualification" is used in reference to sanitary science, public health, or State medicine. I wish to know whether the document which is called a "qualification" will be covered by the word "diploma?"
§ SIR LYON PLAYFAIRYes; because the words "or other status or document" are in the definition.
DR. FARQUHARSON (Aberdeen, W.)The explanation given by the right hon. Gentleman is quite satisfac- 1433 tory, and after it I do not propose to move my Amendments.
§ Bill reported; as amended, to be considered To-morrow.