§ MR. SEXTONmoved an Amendment, in page 9, line 32, at end of note, add—
The precept for the present year is to he sent immediately after the passing of this Act.
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, he did not object to the Amendment.
§ Question put, and agreed to; words inserted accordingly.
§ MR. SEXTONmoved an Amendment, in page 10, line 13, at end, add—
To aid you in the performance of this duty, the registrars of births and deaths are required to send you, from time to time at your request, returns of the names and residences of all male persons of full age dying within your union, and you must examine these returns to see whether anyone who otherwise would appear in the list of voters is dead.The hon. Member explained that the provision was taken from the English Act.
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there added."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, that he had adopted nearly all the Amendments which had been taken from the English form. No doubt, this was taken from the English form, and was English law, but it was not Irish law. He was, therefore, unable to accept the Amendment.
§ MR. SEXTONasked how these facts were to be found out, unless some such provision were made?
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, they 535 would be found out, as they were at the present moment. Of course, the Clerk of the Union would know very well whether the man was dead or not. He objected to the Amendment, on the ground that, in these Schedules, it was impossible to make new law.
§ MR. DAWSONasked why it should be impossible to make new law in the House of Commons? If they passed this provision, and directed it to be inserted in the precept, surely it would become law.
§ COLONEL KING-HARMANsaid, it was most undesirable that the name of any dead man should appear on the list.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, it would be the duty of the Clerk of the Union to strike off the names of all persons who were dead.
§ MR. BIGGARsaid, the objection which had been urged was one of the most extraordinary he had ever heard. It was all very well to say that the Clerk of a Poor Law Union would probably know whether a particular man was dead, if he happened to be a large ratepayer, whose name had appeared regularly in the list of persons entitled to pay rates; but it would be perfectly impossible for him to know, under the new law, which of the voters might be dead, unless some such provision as that proposed by his hon. Friend were inserted in the Bill. He agreed with the hon. and gallant Member for the county of Dublin (Colonel King-Harman) that it was most undesirable for the names of persons who were dead to appear on the lists of voters.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, the objection which had been made by his hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor General for Ireland was conclusive. They could not put anything in a precept, prescribed in a Schedule, which was not supported by a legislative enactment of some kind, and there was no legislative enactment to this effect entitling this to be done. He quite admitted the difficulty, and perhaps it might be dealt with in "another place." It would not be met by the present Amendment; but he would consider in what way the object could best be achieved.
§ MR. WARTONsaid, he thought that some interpretation should be 536 given to the existing law, so as to prevent the overseers from falling into arrear. He would suggest that it might be possible, when the Bill was re-committed, to re-commit it in respect of a clause dealing with this matter.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, it would not be convenient to draw up a clause upon this subject to be inserted in the Bill on re-committal. The Bill was only to be re-committed in reference to a special money clause.
§ MR. SEXTONsaid, he would not press the Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ On the Motion of Mr. SEXTON, the following Amendments made:—In page 10, line 16, after "me," insert "on or before the eighth day of July;" and in page 11, line 12, after "me," insert on or before the eighth day of July."
§ MR. SEXTON,in moving, in page 11, line 20, to insert, after the word "house," the words "rated in the last rate made for the relief of the poor at an annual value not exceeding four pounds," said, that as the Schedule at present stood it struck out from the list the occupier of a house, no matter how small the value might be, if the rates due on the 1st of January had not been paid before the 1st of July. In Ireland, if a man occupied a house of the value of £4 or under, rated for the relief of the poor, the landlord was liable to pay the rates. As the landlord was usually a person of substance, if the rates were not paid, they were easily recoverable. Therefore, there was no danger that they would not be paid, and it was unjust that a large class of small occupiers should be thrown out of the franchise on account of the delay of some other person over whom they had no control. They could not compel the landlord to pay the rates, and all he would have to do would be to delay payment until after the 1st of July in order to deprive them of the franchise. It might be said that the tenants themselves could pay the rates. So they could if they happened to be persons of substance; but it would be absurd, and even cruelty, to ask them at this time to pay a single 1d. in addition to that for which they were legally liable. The evil in this case was that the tenant would be disfranchised, not on account of any fault of his own, but on account of the fault of someone else. 537 He had received a letter from a gentleman who was well informed upon this subject in reference to the question of how far the tenant would be able to pay the rates and afterwards deduct them from the rent. This gentleman asked how it could be supposed that the tenants around the Donegal Coast, and in some of the inland places, could pay the rates? It would be altogether impossible for the majority to find the money. They were poor people who could hardly afford to buy a stone's weight of Indian meal, and if the Government could not see their way to the amendment of this provision, the offer of the franchise to these persons was a pure legislative farce. He maintained that if the provision was to include the occupiers of houses of £4 annual rent and under, the result would be to disfranchise nearly the whole of these poor men. He submitted that justice and common sense required that such a result should be prevented.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 11, line 20, by inserting, after the the word "house," the words "rated in the last rate made for the relief of the poor at an annual value not exceeding four pounds."—(Mr, Sexton.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, that it was quite impossible to accept the Amendment. The law provided that the rates should be paid on a certain date, either by the owner or the occupier, and that being so, they could not alter it in the Schedule.
§ MR. MOLLOYsaid, the Government might take the same course as that which they proposed to take in regard to another question which had been raised earlier—namely, insert the Amendment in "another place." If the only objection was that they could not make new law in a precept, the difficulty would be obviated by introducing a clause in the House of Lords which would cover the point.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL (Sir FARRER HERSCHELL)said, the difficulty he felt in the matter was that this Amendment would have the effect of altering the franchise, and placing it on a different basis in Ireland from that on which it would stand in England and 538 Scotland. It would not be possible, therefore, to accept the Amendment.
§ MR. BIGGARsaid, he would point out that in the town of Belfast it was an invariable rule in regard to all houses under a certain rent for the landlord to pay the rates, charging them to the tenant in the form of an addition to the rent, the tenant paying a lump sum which included taxes. It was perfectly certain that if this Amendment were not made, an agent or an owner would be able to disfranchise one class of tenants, and allow another class to obtain the franchise, or he might be enabled to bring about a wholesale disfranchisement of the people. The principal reason why this custom prevailed in Belfast was this—when local rates to the extent of £20 were paid, the Warrant Commissioner gave a reduction of 25 per cent to the landlord, provided the rates were paid in advance. Therefore, in these cases, the local rates were paid in advance; but the amount paid in each instance by the landlord was added to the rent, which included not only the local rates, but also the poor rates. The usual custom adopted in Belfast was to collect the rates in the month of April for the whole year. That would give a very short time within which the rates must be paid, or the tenant would find himself disfranchised. He would strongly urge upon the Government the propriety of accepting the Amendment.
§ MR. LALORsaid, he would also point out to the Government that by this Bill they would cause a delay in the payment of rates, for they would give to the landlords who were accustomed to pay the poor rates, an incentive not to pay the rates. Under the present system, there were no better paid rates in Ireland than the rates paid by landlords for the small holdings; but in the future, it would be to their own interest for the landlords to defer the payment of these rates.
§ MR. DAWSONsaid, the hon. and learned Gentleman the Solicitor General for Ireland (Mr. Walker) must know that in England there was a great inducement to landlords to pay the rates in time. The large bonus of 25 per cent was given to landlords provided they paid the rates in time to secure their tenants the franchise, so jealous was the law of England that no sub- 539 tenant should lose his vote for the nonpayment of rates. It had been shown that no such inducement prevailed in Ireland; indeed, there was every inducement to delay the payment of rates. Under such circumstances, he thought it was only right that the Amendment should be accepted.
§ MR. SMALLsaid, that in the case of a man who was required to pay the rates of his house, the knowledge that he would be disfranchised if he did not pay his rates would induce him to pay them. Surely it was unreasonable that men should be disfranchised because the man on whose land they lived neglected to pay the rates in the time he was required to pay them. Besides, the tenants had no means of ascertaining whether the rates were paid or not. If right hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench would only look into this matter seriously, they must see how utterly absurd and illogical the present state of the law was. There was no chance of getting an Amendment like this adopted in "another place," because the landlords of Ireland belonged to one political Party. It might be argued that any landlord who neglected to pay the rates ran a great risk of legal proceedings. There was no force whatever in such an argument. Legal proceedings to enforce payment of rates were seldom taken until a very long time after the rates were due; the Guardians never thought of proceeding legally to recover the rates until long after the time had passed for the registration of voters. He thought it was very probable it would be be found that in many parts of Ireland a number of sub-tenants or labourers were temporarily disfranchised because their landlord did not pay the rates in the specified time. A landlord might pay the rates of the house in which he lived, and thus secure the enfranchisement of himself; but by neglecting the payment of other rates for which he was responsible bring about the disfranchisement of a large number of men living in his houses. It was very true, as pointed out by the hon. Member for Cavan (Mr. Biggar), that the tenants paid increased rent where the landlord paid the rates, and, as a rule, paid the rent in advance of the time for the payment of rates. Whether, therefore, the landlord paid the rates to the Guardians or not, he himself had long 540 ago received the rates in the shape of increased rents.
§ Question put, and negatived.
§ MR. DAWSONproposed an Amendment, in page 11, line 21, after "due," to leave out "on," and insert "up to." He thought the hon. and learned Gentleman the Solicitor General for Ireland would accept this Amendment, for it was obviously an error to have different phraseology relating to the same subject. In one page, there was "prior to the 1st of January;" in another page, "rents due previous to the 1st of January;" and in the line in which he wished to make the Amendment, there was "rates due on the 1st of January."
§ Amendment agreed to; words substituted.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 11, line 25, after "rated," add nor by reason of its being held by a weekly, monthly, or quarterly tenure."—(Mr. Campbell-Mannennan.)
§ MR. WARTONsuggested, that, for greater clearness, it would be well to substitute "or which is" for "nor by reason of its being."
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, he was obliged to the hon. and learned Member opposite (Mr. Warton) for taking the trouble to furnish these words. As they would make the matter clearer, he would accept them.
§ Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 12, line 16, by leaving out from the word "You," to the word "statute," in line 18, and inserting the words,—"You are required to allow any person on the list of voters to inspect at any time between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon of any day, except Sunday, without payment or demand of any fee, and to make a copy of or to take an extract from:—
—instead thereof.
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL For IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)opposed the Amendment.
§ Amendment negatived.
541
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 12, after line 18, to insert,—"You are required to allow a copy of every register dealt with by you, and of every supplemental list made out by you, in conformity with this precept, to be open to public inspection, and to be perused by every person desirous of perusing it, at any hour between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon of any day, except Sunday, during a period of not less than fourteen days from the date of the completion of your function with respect to each such register or list, without payment or demand of any fee."—(Mr. Sexton.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, he was perfectly willing to accept the Amendment if there were added to it—"Provided such document be in your power, procurement or control."
§ Question, "That the proposed words be added to the proposed Amendment," put, and agreed to.
§ Original Question, as amended, put and agreed to.
§
Amendment proposed,
To add, at the end of the foregoing Amendment:—"You are required to deliver to every person applying for the same, at any time between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon of any day, except Sunday, during a period of not less than fourteen days after the completion by you, as directed by this precept, of any register, list, or other document, or written or printed copy of such register, list, or other document or portion of the same, on payment of a price for such copy after the following rate.
For any copy of a register, list, or other document containing any number of persons names:—
| s. | d. | |
| Not exceeding 100 names | 0 | 3 |
| Exceeding 100 and not exceeding 200 | 0 | 6 |
| Exceeding 200 and not exceeding 300 | 0 | 9 |
| Exceeding 300 and not exceeding 400 | 1 | 0 |
| Exceeding 400 and not exceeding 500 | 1 | 3 |
| Exceeding 500 | 1 | 6" |
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there added."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, he would not object to the clause, if certain Amendments in it were made. For instance, the words "or written" should be struck out, otherwise there would be a written copy of the Register required, and that would be very inconvenient.
§ Amendment proposed to the said proposed Amendment, to omit the words "or written."—(Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland.)
§ Question, "That the words 'or written' stand part of the said proposed Amendment," put, and negatived.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)proposed that there should be added after "copy," in the last line of the first paragraph, the words "supplied by him."
§ Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)proposed to omit the words "after the following rate," and insert "after the scale mentioned in the Schedule of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885."
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)proposed to omit the rest of the Amendment from "for any."
§ Question, "That the words 'for any' to the end of the Amendment be omitted," put, and agreed to.
§ Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
§ Other Amendments made.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 16, after line 5, by inserting the words "[Note.—This notice is to be published on or before the 10th day of July]."—(Mr. Sexton.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, that under the present law the official had until the 20th to make up his list. He did not think it would be well to alter the law in this respect.
§ Question put, and negatived.
§ Amendment made.
§ Amendment proposed, in page 18, by leaving out "Form 8," and inserting "Third Schedule, on page 36,"—(Mr. Sexton,)—instead thereof.
§ Question proposed, "That 'Form 8' stand part of the Bill."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, he 543 thought that the form was a very proper one, especially if amended as the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland intended to propose.
§ MR. SEXTONconsidered it was a most absurd form, as it gave no particulars whatever.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Amendment proposed, in page 18, line 2, after "parties," to insert "named in any list of claimants."—(Mr. Campbell-Bannerman)
§ Question, "That those wards be there inserted," put, and agreed to.
§ Amendments made.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 21, line 15, by leaving out the words "fifth day of June," and inserting the words "twentieth day of May,"—(Mr. Sexton,)
—instead thereof.
§ Question, "That the words 'fifth day of June' stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.
§ Amendments made.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)proposed, in page 32, line 6, to insert the following Eorms:—
§ "Part III.—Forms applicable to both Counties and Boroughs.
§ "Form No. 29.
§ "Table of Bates of Payment to be demanded and paid for any list or copy of a list (other than a register), where a payment is required and authorised by the Registration Acts.
§ "For any list or copy of a list containing any number of persons' names:—
| s. | d. | |
| Not exceeding 100 names | 0 | 6 |
| Exceeding 100 and not exceeding 200 | 1 | 0 |
| Exceeding 200 and not exceeding 300 | 1 | 6 |
| Exceeding 300 and not exceeding 400 | 2 | 0 |
| Exceeding 400 | 2 | 6 |
§ "Form No. 30.
§ "Table of Rates of Payment to be demanded and paid for any Copy of a Register, or part of any Register, where a payment is required and authorised by the Registration Acts.
§ "For every copy of any register, or any part of any register, containing any number of persons' names:—
| s. | d. | |
| Not exceeding 1,000 names | 1 | 0 |
| Exceeding 1,000 and not exceeding 3,000 | 2 | 6 |
| Exceeding 3,000 and not exceeding 6,000 | 5 | 0 |
| Exceeding 6,000 and not exceeding 9,000 | 7 | 6 |
| Exceeding 9,000 | 10 | 0" |
§ By this Amendment he proposed to add a Schedule containing a list of prices.
544§ The hon. Member for Sligo (Mr. Sexton) purposed by an Amendment, which appeared on the Paper later on, to reduce the prices by exactly one-half. As a matter of fact, the prices were fixed by a Schedule to the Act of 1850, and therefore they could not be altered. In any case, he should object to the alteration suggested by the hon. Member.
§ Question proposed, "That the proposed 'Forms' be there inserted."
§ MR. SEXTONsaid, he considered that the prices named in the lists were very excessive, and if it be a fact, as he believed it was, that they could put what prices they pleased in the Schedule, they should receive some assurance that these prices would be reconsidered before the Bill passed through "another place." He could not understand on what principle the prices were arranged. The demand for the lists was sure to be very largely increased, owing to the fact that now a much larger number of persons would take an interest in the franchise. There were two lists, and they certainly were very extraordinary. In the one 2s. 6d. was charged for upwards of 400 names, and in the other only 1s. was charged for 1,000 names. What was the explanation for such a variation in the charges?
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)pointed out that one was a register and the other a list.
§ MR. SEXTONsaid, they both contained names; and he did not see why, in the one case, a larger charge should be made than in the other. It was perfectly obvious that the prices could be cheapened, and he invited the hon. and learned Gentleman to consider the list of prices which he (Mr. Sexton), after close inquiries, had put upon the Paper.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Other Amendments made.
§
Amendment proposed,
In page 34, line 14, by leaving out all the words after the word "note" between the brackets, and inserting the words "this notice must be served upon every occupier who would, if the rate were paid on or before the first of July, be entitled to be registered as a voter in respect of the occupation thereof. Service of the notice is to be personal, if practicable, and if not, the notice may be left at the last or usual place of abode of the occupier, or with some
545
person on the premises in respect of which the rate is payable, or, if no person can be found, it may be affixed upon some conspicuous part of the premises,"—(Mr. Sexton,)
—instead thereof.
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, that this matter was regulated by the Act of 1867.
§ MR. SEXTONcontended that the "note" was absolutely essential, particularly as the failure of the landlord to pay rates would disfranchise the tenant. He wished that the tenant should be able, by some means or other, to know whether the landlord had paid the rates or not. Surely, there could be no objection to the words—
This notice must he served upon every occupier who would, if the rate were paid on or before the first of July, be entitled to be registered as a voter in respect of the occupation thereof.He could not assent to fall back upon any old Act. He hoped there would be no opposition to the Amendment.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, that the matter would be looked into in "another place."
§ MR. MOLLOYsaid, these promises were vague, and amounted to nothing at all. The Irish Members asked that the law might be carried out in accordance with the intention of the House, and the right hon. Gentleman said it should be done "elsewhere." It was to be hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would correct the phrase, and see that the necessary Amendment was inserted in the House of Lords.
§ MR. DAWSONsaid, there was a demand note served on occupiers in Ireland; but it was considered waste paper, and not as a substitute for notice of non-payment of rates. He wished to know if there was a similar note appended to the form in the English Act?
§ MR. SMALLsaid, that of all the cool things he had ever heard of, this statement of the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland that the matter would be put right in the House of Lords was about the coolest. The House of Lords was not a place where Amendments beneficial to the people of Ireland were likely to be inserted. In 546 every part of this note there was a trap for the people of Ireland, and it was ridiculous to leave anything to the mercy of the House of Lords, who had never done anything yet for Ireland.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)We should be prepared to leave out the note altogether, and be governed by the ordinary law.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)We cannot alter the law in the Schedule.
§ MR. SMALLsaid, it was a trap. The disqualification they anticipated was in the case of men whose rates were to be paid, not by themselves, but by others on whose land they lived. The hon. and learned Gentleman the Solicitor General for Ireland knew that demand notes for rates were not served on sub-tenants at all, yet it was said that if the landlord had got a demand note, all the tenants would not be able to vote unless their rates were paid. The rates were struck in September or October, and the disqualifying time was July. Let the Guardians strike the rate in September or October, and let them serve all occupiers with a demand note in November or December, and servo no notice whatever further on anyone, and the result would be satisfactory. Let them consider how the proposed plan would work on a large property. The rate collector came round, and was only bound to serve a notice on one person on the premises. He would go to a landlord, who would have, perhaps, a number of houses rated together, or the landlord's agent. That person would be served with the notice; but none of the newly enfranchised persons would receive one. The agent might have announced his intention of not paying the rate at all. Lord Bantry was a man who would be likely to take that course—hon. Members could imagine for what reason. He had a largo amount of money, and he would be likely to take upon himself the responsibility of refusing payment, because, before he could be proceeded against, his sub-tenants would be disqualified from voting. He (Mr. Small) trusted his hon. Friends would press this Amendment to the utmost, and would take care that the matter was not left to the mercy of the House of Lords.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL (Sir FARRER HERSCHELL)said, the precept required something to be done—that a notice should be served, unless the rate had been properly paid or duly demanded by a demand note, and that a notice should be given or delivered to the occupier. All that was now done was to see that the law was properly complied with. The law might be good or not. They could not now do anything to alter it, or do anything beyond what the law required a man to do. Perhaps the hon. Member for Wexford (Mr. Small) would allow him to call attention to this—the hon. Member threw all the blame on hon. Gentlemen sitting on the Ministerial Bench; but if he desired an amendment in the law, he might have moved it where, though it might not have been applicable, it would have been, at any rate, more applicable than it was now. He should not have held over the matter until they came to a form which was to carry out the law, and not to alter it.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORWhere would it have been more applicable?
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL (Sir FARRER HERSCHELL)In the Representation of the People Act, we cannot tell the local officials to do more than the law requires. The hon. Member opposite (Mr. Small) was insisting on the Government doing something which they could not do.
§ MR. SEXTONsaid, there was in the Schedule, in the name of the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Campbell-Bannerman), an Amendment containing an extremely long instruction, embracing a lot of matters which were not in any law that was ever passed. No doubt they were reasonable. In the English Bill there was an instruction to the effect that on or before the 20th of June they were to give to every occupier a notice by delivering it on him, or leaving it with some person on the property in respect of which the rate was payable. They need not have received the rate if it had been demanded of such occupier. In the English Bill, therefore, a notice would be served on every occupier who would be entitled to be placed on the Register. If the demand of the Irish Members was not yielded to in this matter, they would have to resort to the Forms of the House—that was to say, to move the adjourn- 548 ment of the debate and of the House alternately. They were met by empty and delusive arguments which were not named; and unless the same notice were allowed in the case of Ireland as was given in the case of England the progress of the Schedule would be resisted.
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, there would be no objection to putting the English form in the Bill.
§ MR. WARTONsaid, that the 28th section of the Act of 1867 said distinctly and clearly that this notice had only to be given when there had not been a demand note. As had been pointed out, it was not now proposed to alter the law, but to make a form to carry it out. The House should have more time to consider the enormous number of questions that these Bills involved; at any rate, an effort must be made to render the measure satisfactory. In 1867 the word "house" was not so comprehensive as it had since become, and the "occupier" spoken of in the clause of the Act of that year was no doubt supposed to be the only person inhabiting the house. Now, however, they had men inhabiting bits of houses; and the question was whether the law should not be altered so as to render it necessary to serve a demand note on every person occupying rooms in a house, or who might otherwise be disqualified from voting. Some years ago a house meant a house in the ordinary sense of the word; but now it only meant a little bit of a house.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANWe are willing to put in the Schedule the exact English form; but we cannot do it now as the dates will have to be altered. I will undertake that the necessary Amendment shall be carried out in "another place."
§ MR. SEXTONThe exact provisions in the Act of 1878?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANYes; altering the dates.
§ COLONEL KING-HARMANWill the right hon. Gentleman consider the propriety of assimilating the English and Irish law, and of giving the Irish landlords a reduction of 25 per cent if they pay the rates within a reasonable time? That would very much facilitate matters.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
549§ MR. SEXTONsaid, he desired to add the following note, after the Form of Return, in page 84, line 36:—
A copy of this Form shall be served in respect of every separate rating, and the clerk to the Board of Guardians and the respective collector or collectors of poor rates are required to fill in Column No. 1, according to the rate hook, before the Form is served.When a Form has been mislaid or spoiled, or erroneously filled up, another Form shall he supplied by the clerk to the Board of Guardians, or the rate collector, on application by or on behalf of the person required to fill up the Form.The Form, when returned through the post, is to be received, and duly dealt with by the clerk and all other officials, even though the postage be not prepaid.The first and second paragraphs would be found a matter of considerable convenience, whilst the third paragraph would prevent the disqualification of persons who omitted, through ignorance, to use a stamp.
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there added."
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, he thought it would be reasonable to send a stamped envelope.
§ MR. SEXTONasked that a provision to that effect should be inserted in the Bill. All he desired was to prevent the voter from losing his vote, and that would be guarded against if there were a direction to the clerk to send a stamped envelope.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORsaid, the question had been raised before, and the Postmaster General had been kind enough to promise that he would consider it. He thought it would be a monstrous thing that the voter should lose his vote on account of any misadventure with regard to the return of the form to the Clerk of the Board of Guardians. Did he understand the Chief Secretary for Ireland to accept the Amendment of his hon. Friend (Mr. Sexton).
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, he was prepared to accept the first two paragraphs of the Amendment; but the third raised a question as to unpaid postage, and it would be necessary to consult the Postmaster General. He was sorry that his right hon. Friend (Mr. Shaw Lefevre) was not present; but at that moment he was not aware of the view of his right hon. Friend upon the subject.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORsuggested that the Amendment should be accepted in the form in which it had been proposed by his hon. Friend; and, if necessary, a change might be effected in "another place."
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANdeclared his willingness to accept that suggestion.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Amendment proposed,
§
In page 34, line 38, at the end, to insert—
Note.—The description of the property in the first column should be a copy from the rate hook, and should be filled in by the clerk of the union, and if it is a house numbered in a street should specify the street and number.
The following instructions should be annexed to the form, with such alterations, if any, as the clerk thinks necessary for adapting them to the circumstances of the union or of the property to which the notice refers.
Instructions for filling up the Form.
The dwelling house in the second column may be either—
If it is a cottage, insert in second column, 'cottage in road,' or otherwise specify its locality.
If it is a part of a dwelling house, insert in the second column 'rooms over stable,' 'basement of office,' 'rooms over shop,' or otherwise specify the locality of the room or rooms.
If it is a house let out in separate tenements, insert in the second column the position of the room or rooms occupied; for example, 'First floor, front room.'
In the third column insert, opposite to the description of the dwelling house in the second column, the name of the man who now inhabits it, and has inhabited it since the twentieth day of July last.
If it has not been so inhabited state so, or omit the dwelling house from the second column.
In filling up the return it must be recollected that, under the Representation of the People Acts—
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. SEXTONpointed out that the first paragraph (a), which directed that "a separate house" might be "a schoolmaster's house," might be misleading. He moved that the word "labourers" should be substituted for "schoolmasters."
§ Question, "That the word 'schoolmasters' stand part of the Note," put, and negatived.
§ Question, "That the word 'labourers' stand part of the Note," put, and agreed to.
§ Question, "That the Note, as amended, stand part of the Schedule," put, and agreed to.
§ Schedule, as amended, agreed to.