COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 20 July 1885)

§ MR. SEXTON
said, this was a Bill enabling Boards of Guardians to make allowances to the officers of Poor Law Unions in Ireland on abolition of office. The Bill had been framed to meet cases of Union amalgamation in Ireland. He considered the scheme a bad one, and had expected some reply on the part of the Government to the arguments that had been put forward on the subject; but the Chief Secretary had not made 1335 any reference to them. He (Mr. Sexton) thought it unfair that a Union which up to the present had only been paying a rate of 1s. 8d. in the pound should find itself suddenly saddled with a rate of 7s. in the pound. To give the Government time further to consider the case, he would move to report Progress.

§ THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR LEE-LAND (Sir WILLIAM HART DYKE)
said, he was sorry that the hon. Member for Sligo was not present when he replied with respect to the Unions proposed to be amalgamated. He should not be in Order in going into this question on the present Bill, but he thought he might say that the matter had been practically settled. He hoped the hon. Gentleman would not think it necessary to press his Motion.

§ MR. HEALY
said, he thought it hard that the Union of Newport should be saddled with a 7s. rate. He said that relief must in some way or other be found for the unfortunate ratepayers of that Union, who were quite unable to bear the charge. There was force in the suggestion of his hon. Friend that perhaps some better scheme might be discovered. He was informed last summer by a local Inspector that the greatest unanimity and desire existed in the Union to adopt this scheme. He would suggest that the Bill should be passed for a short period of time only, in order that they might have an opportunity next year of examining into the action of the Local Board officials in this matter. There was no doubt that this question of Poor Law Union amalgamation was a very large one. There were in Ireland 160 Unions, and, of course, when the county government scheme came forward, this question would have to be settled. He thought the Bill might be made more definite in scope, because it was not the Westport Union that had to pay the salaries, it was the area of the abolished Union. Why should the Westport Union have to pay the retiring allowances of doctors and officers at the Newport Union, seeing that they had not had the benefit of their services. But the proposal was unfair to the officers themselves, because the Westport Union 1336 could refuse to pay them. He thought the Bill had not been sufficiently examined by the Local Government Board, and perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would concede a little time for the purpose of putting down Amendments. While he considered the Bill necessary, he still thought that a better scheme could be arrived at, and he suggested that by some arrangement the Bill should be made to go further.

§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. HOLMES)
said, the Government were very desirous of making progress with this Bill, which, he pointed out, had nothing to do with the question of amalgamation. The important point provided for was that the officers of an abolished Union should receive adequate remuneration. It would be very undesirable to throw the superannuation of the officers of the Newport Union upon the people of Westport. He believed that was provided for in the Bill. He hoped the hon. Member for Sligo would allow the Bill to proceed.

§ MR. SEXTON
said, they were aware that the Bill had been brought before the House under peculiar circumstances. He thought it unfair that the Local Government Board should press this scheme upon them. The right hon. Gentleman had not said one word to show why the rate of 1s. 2d. paid in the Union of West-port should suddenly become 3s. 2d. in the pound; but he hoped that the Government would be able to arrange for some modification of the scheme, and he asked them to assent, for that purpose, to the Motion he had made to report Progress.

§ MR. HEALY
said, if the Government would give a guarantee that the matter should be looked into with a view to redressing the grievance under which the people of Westport laboured, progress would be made with the Bill.

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Sir WILLIAM HART-DYKE)
said, his impression was that the amalgamation of the Unions of Newport and West-port would not have upon the latter anything like the effect which the hon. Member supposed. Of course, he should be glad if he could get information upon the subject in a more complete and accurate form than he had at present.

§ MR. SULLIVAN
said, if, as the right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland had stated, this question had 1337 been settled, he should be glad to know whether it had been settled to the satisfaction of those who were intimately concerned in it? If it had been settled, he thought it had been settled very improperly.