HC Deb 03 August 1885 vol 300 cc981-3

Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."—(Sir Henry Holland, Secretary to the Treasury.)

Motion agreed to.

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses agreed to.

New Clause— 'The Harbours and Passing Tolls, &c. Act, 1861,' shall be construed as if the expression 'shipping purpose,' in sections two and three thereof, included the advance of money for the redemption of debts incurred by the authority of any harbour under any Act of Parliament for the improvement of such harbour.

MR. STEVENSON

said, he proposed to move that the clause be read a second time.

THE CHAIRMAN

In my opinion, the proposed clause of the hon. Member is out of Order, inasmuch as it is beyond the scope of the Bill. This is a Bill for the purpose of enabling the Public Works Loans Commissioners to make advances for certain purposes up to a certain amount. The hon. Member proposes to include in it the provisions of another Bill, and that proposal is not in Order.

MR. STEVENSON

said, on previous occasions opportunity was taken to do a thing precisely similar to what he now proposed to do—namely, to enlarge the powers of the Public Works Loans Commissioners in regard to loans by Clauses in the Annual Bill. He wished to point out that in the Act of 1876 power was taken to advance money to a particular Railway Company beyond the then existing powers of the Commissioners. And he found also that in the Act of 1879 a clause was inserted empowering the Public Works Loans Commissioners to lend money to the Peabody Trustees, and to Companies engaged in the erection of labourers' dwellings. His present proposal was to enlarge the powers of the Public Works Loans Commissioners in the administration of the Harbours and Passing Tolls Act. He believed that in so doing he was not taking an unusual course.

THE CHAIRMAN

I have not ruled the hon. Member out of Order without taking competent advice on the subject, and that advice is that the clause of the hon. Member is beyond the scope of the Bill.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

said, that perhaps the Chairman would be good enough to define how this clause which the hon. Member proposed differed in respect of the precedent which the hon. Member had cited. In what particular did that Amendment differ from the Amendment made in 1876 and 1879? This was an extremely important matter, and it was desirable that the ruling on this subject which would become a precedent should state precisely why a very similar, if not identical, thing to that which was allowed to be done in 1876 and 1879 should now be ruled out of Order.

THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Sir HENRY HOLLAND)

said, that one of the matters mentioned was the Harbours and Passing Tolls Act. A certain amount of money had been invested in the Board for the purpose of carrying out that Act. In that Act the words "shipping purposes" were defined; but by this new clause it was now proposed to extend the words "shipping purposes;" to give them a further and wider definition; and thus to extend practically the power of the Board. This would be beyond the scope of the Bill, and should be effected by a Bill to amend the Harbours and Passing Tolls Act. The point aimed at by the proposed clause required consideration. However, for the present he ventured to suggest that this clause was really extending and enlarging the power mentioned in this very Bill, by which money was to be placed in the hands of the Commissioners for a special purpose.

THE CHAIRMAN

It is impossible for me to point out the difference between this question and those referred to by the hon. Gentleman, because these Bills, or the particulars of thorn, are not before me. I would point out that the clause the hon. Gentleman proposes to insert is on a different subject to the Bill now before the Committee.

Bill reported, without Amendment; to be read the third time To-morrow.