HC Deb 23 April 1885 vol 297 cc475-8
MR. M'COAN

asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether any, and what, penalty attaches to breach of the Oath of Allegiance taken by Members of this House; whether his attention has been called to The United Ireland and to The Freeman's Journal, both of the 18th inst., containing reports of speeches delivered on the occasion of the Prince of Wales's visit to Ireland by, amongst others, Mr. W. O' Brien, M.P., at Kanturck, on the 12th inst., when he is reported to have said— England is entering upon a gigantic struggle with Russia (enthusiastic cheering). It seems to me to be just the moment for the Irish people to proclaim to the world, and to warn England, that in the hour of her peril she will have to deal with an Irish nation, which she has op- pressed, impoverished, ruined, and plundered (prolonged cheering), a nation which burns and longs for the opportunity of putting an end for ever to English misgovernment in Ireland by peaceable means and by friendly alliance, if that be possible, but if not by any means that God's providence may send to close our long struggle for national independence (prolonged cheering); also of a speech delivered by Mr. W. Redmond, M.P., at Dundalk, on the 12th inst., in which— He rejoiced that in their resolutions they first declared their unalterable determination to be satisfied with nothing that England could give so long as Englishmen ruled them (cheers), and so long as the English flag took the place where the green only ought to float (cheers). There could be no time when it would be more appropriate or effective for them to pronounce in favour of Home Rule, because the old saying was as true now as in the days when Wolfe Tone died, that 'England's difficulty, under the providence of God, was Ireland's opportunity.' In the Soudan the English had got 20,000 of their picked troops trying to 'smash the Mahdi' (cheers and laughter). In the Soudan the English had already got from the brave Arabs a touch of what his fellow-countrymen gave them in the blessed days of '98 (prolonged cheering). He thought the day was coming when the Irish people will place the immortal green for ever over and above the red (cheers); also of a speech made at the Rotunda, Dublin, on the 17th instant, by Mr. W. Redmond, M.P., in which he said— He (the Prince of Wales) had prayed that God might protect and bless Ireland (renewed groaning). Such a thing from a man whose Country had trampled upon them, disgraced them, and ruined them, was insulting to the Irish race (applause). The Irish people wanted no praise from an English Prince for their salvation. If the great majority of the Irish people believed that they could not get salvation except through the mediation of the English Prince, they would rather go down willingly to perdition (applause). … If they were persecuted too much by Orangemen and Freemasons, if they had too much princely visit slung in their teeth by the English Times, they would be compelled to fall in shoulder to shoulder, and to march along, if not to liberty in this Country, at least to die with their face to their foe, with the green standard of their fathers flying above them (loud cheers); also of a further speech delivered by Mr. W. O'Brien, M.P., at the fortnightly meeting of the Irish National League held in Dublin on the 21st inst. at which he is reported by The Times of yesterday to have said— There was no loyalty in Ireland to England or an English Prince, and wherever the Prince would go throughout the country there would not be wanting evidence to remind him that the sincere and earnest prayer of the Irish people was that the British Empire would be sunk for twenty-four hours under the sea (lond cheers); and, whether such speeches constitute a legal offence, and whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to take any action in regard to them, or to permit the continued deliverance of similar speeches with impunity in the future?

MR. BIGGAR

Before the hon. and learned Gentleman answers that Question, may I be permitted to ash him whether there is any fee allowed to a common informer in such cases as this?

MR. SPEAKER

Order!

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES)

I do not know that any offence can be charged against anyone, or that any penalty can be inflicted upon anyone, for breaking the Oath of Allegiance. Of course, if any persons commit any acts either of high treason or of sedition which show him to be wanting in the fulfilment of that Oath, he will be guilty, by law, for having committed those acts; but no charge can be preferred in that name for not having fulfilled the Oath and promise of allegiance. Then the hon. Member asks me whether such speeches as are quoted in the Question constitute a legal offence? If I were to answer that Question, I should be taking upon myself the fulfilment of the duties both of Judge and jury. I, therefore, respectfully ask the House to permit me not to be the judge of any man, be he a Member of this House or not, or to say whether he has or has not been guilty of an offence. As to the third Question, whatever course it is thought right to take, either in the affirmative or in the negative, the matter rests entirely with the Irish Executive.

MR. M'COAN

Then, as regards the Oath of Allegiance taken in this House, are we to understand that it is, as the junior Member for Northampton describes it to be for himself, an idle form, or a legal reality imposing an obligation?

[No reply.]

Afterwards,

MR. M'COAN

said: As the Attorney General has stated, in answer to the final portion of my Question, that it would be more properly addressed to the Irish Executive, I beg to give Notice that, on a future day, I shall ask that part of the Question of the Solicitor General or Chief Secretary for Ireland, whichever is the more competent to answer it.