HC Deb 26 May 1884 vol 288 cc1306-8
MR. NORWOOD

asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the three gentlemen who estimated the insurance value of certain steamers made the usual survey and examination of the vessels and their machinery to enable them to arrive at a just conclusion; whether two of them, viz. Mr. White (underwriter to the Marine Insurance Company) and Mr. Stringer (formerly a shipbroker)—are professional valuers; and, whether he, before accepting their valuation as authoritative, took any steps to inform himself as to their possessing any scientific or practical acquaintance with the construction and values of ships and machinery?

MR. CHAMBERLAIN

I have communicated with the several gentlemen named by the hon. Member with reference to the points raised in his Question, and have received the following replies. Mr. Stringer informs me that he was for many years the managing partner in one of the largest ship broking and insurance businesses in London, and for nine years represented the subscribers of Lloyd's on the Salvage Association. He says his intimate knowledge of shipping, arising from his experience as charterer and insurer, enabled him to form an accurate estimate of the value of the various vessels he referred to, and that the values at which he arrived were confirmed by professional valuers. I have also received a telegram from Mr. White, who says— It is not customary to employ professional valuers to fix insurance values. The great number of vessels that have come under my notice during my past 18 years experience as an Underwriter enables me, generally speaking, to arrive at a fair valuation for insurance purposes. Before sending my estimates to the Board of Trade, I submitted the same to a gentleman of considerable experience in valuing steamships, and the difference between us was under £3,000. Messrs. Bayley and Ridley, who are professional valuers, have written to me as follows:— We do not in any case make a survey and examination of the vessels and their machinery, but form our opinions as to values from the description given of the vessels in Lloyd's Register and The Liverpool Registry of Iron Vessels (of present and past years), carefully noticing the records of surveys and repairs, and assuming that the vessels were fully up to the description given. We also assumed the accuracy of the particulars printed in the Board of Trade Reports when they were supplied to us. Mr. J. Wimshurst, who is Surveyor of the Board of Trade, says— I first inquired the prices at which ships had recently changed hands, and also the prices at which other ships were offering for sale; from this data I deduced a fair current standard value for each type and condition of ship. Then as each list was sent me I looked up in both the Register books the dimensions, the several tonnages, the date of build, type, class, power, and type of engines, ago of boilers, and the date of last survey. With these and the above current standard value I determined the estimated values. Actual survey might, no doubt, enable me to more accurately judge the particular merits of one ship in relation to any other ship; but granting that the Register fairly gives the above particulars, I state unhesitatingly that actual survey is not necessary for the purpose of arriving at the fair estimated market value.

MR. NORWOOD

I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, under the circumstances, these gentlemen, not having inspected the vessels, what they did was not mere guess-work?

MR. CHAMBERLAIN

No, Sir, I think that the letters I have read from these gentlemen show conclusively that it is nothing of the kind; that they took pains to arrive at a fair estimate; and that they adopted the course which is usual in the vast majority of these transactions.

MR. C. M. PALMER

asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether it is his intention to publish and circulate throughout the Country his speech on the Second Reading of the Merchant Shipping Bill before the resumption of the Adjourned Debate? Would the right hon. Gentleman also state when he proposed to issue the Memorandum which he promised to the House respecting the re-easting or re-modelling of the Merchant Shipping Bill; and what was the earliest date on which he proposed to take the Adjourned Debate?

MR. CHAMBERLAIN

The last Question ought to be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, because I have no control over the Business of the House. As regards the Memorandum promised, it was laid on the Table of the House on Friday evening, and will, I hope, be in the hands of hon. Members before the holidays. As to the other Question, I think it is put under some misapprehension. I have not expressed any intention whatever to circulate my speech throughout the country. What I have undertaken to do is to correct very carefully the Parliamentary report, which is prepared by Mr. Hansard. I have offered at the same time to send a copy of this report to any individual who may write to me for it, and who is specially interested in the question.