§ MR. J. G. HUBBARDasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether, seeing that the Prime Minister, when Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1853, declared in his Budget speech, with reference to the reduction of the interest on the Public Debt, "that a large operation of a compulsory character was out of the question," he will explain whether the note appended to the National Debt Act of 1876, from which he now claims to derive compulsory power, has, 1037 since its enactment in 1752, acquired a new signification, or whether he derives such power from other, and, if other, what statute?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS)I have spent some time in reading the Budget Speech of 1853, and I am sorry to say that I have failed to find the words which my right hon. Friend quotes; but whatever the circumstances of 1853 may have been considered to be, those of 1884 are such as in our opinion justify the plan about the Debt which I have explained to the House. The Act—not of 1876, as my right hon. Friend says, but of 1870—consolidates the enactments relating to the Debt, and what he calls "a note appended to the Act" is the Schedule, the terms of which as to Consols and Reduced Three per Cents are explicit.
§ MR. J. G. HUBBARDWhat authority has the right hon. Gentleman for the assumption that he has compulsory power for the conversion of Consols?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS)It would be impossible to explain the arrangements as to compulsory conversion in an answer to a Question. I will give full information on this subject in debate.
§ MR. J. G. HUBBARDasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether any and what action, in the conversion of Three per Cent. Stock into Two and a-half per Cent. Stock, has been taken, consequent on "The National Debt Act, 1884," and, if action has been taken, he will present to the House a statement of the amounts and terms of conversion, including the rate of interest at which the Terminable Annuities were calculated, and the amount and nature of the addition given beyond the equivalent value; and, whether, also, the operation has been with the public or the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS)In reply to my right hon. Friend I have to say that under the National Debt Act, 1884, £4,000,000 Consols held by the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt on account of the Post Office Savings' Banks Fund were cancelled as from the 28th of March last, and the Commissioners received in exchange £4,000,000 Two-and-a-Half per Cent 1038 Stock, with an annuity for 20 years of £35,121. A copy of the Treasury Warrant under which this conversion was made was presented to Parliament on the 3rd of April last, but was not printed. The market price of Consols being 102¼, and the market price of Two-and-a-Half per Cents being 90⅞, the difference was 11⅜, and to this difference 2 per cent was added, under the arrangement between the Treasury and the Commissioners provided for by the Act. The rate of interest at which the Terminable Annuity was calculated was 1.4769 per cent for half a-year, that being the interest yielded by Consols at the price of 102¼. The Acts authorizing the operation limit it to stock held by the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt on account of Post Office Savings Banks.
§ LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILLasked whether it was within the scheme to lay aside one-half per cent saved in interest as a sinking fund for the National Debt? The right hon. Gentleman did not refer to the matter in his Budget Speech.
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS), in reply, said: On the contrary, I fully explained the point in my Financial Statement, and my remarks were accurately reported in The Times.