HC Deb 16 June 1884 vol 289 cc408-9
SIR HERBERT MAXWELL

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether he can give the House the information furnished by M. Cuzzi, relative to the state of affairs in Berber; whether M. Cuzzi is now prisoner in the hands of the Soudanese; and, whether any steps have been taken by the British authorities to effect his release?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

The latest direct information received from M. Cuzzi by Mr. Egerton was dated the 27th of April. It will be found at page 29 of Egypt, No. 18. On the 20th of May a telegram from Hassan Khalifa's son mentioned that M. Cuzzi was besieged at El Sharie, and on the 24th Mr. Egerton telegraphed that a refugee from Berber said he had been captured and threatened with death by Arabs. Major Kitchener has done all in his power to obtain intelligence as to M. Cuzzi, with a view to securing his release, and will continue to do so. Mr. Egerton has telegraphed to-day in regard to Berber that it now is almost impossible to rely on the unsupported testimony of Chermside's messenger that Berber has not fallen, and that Sir Evelyn Wood and General Stephenson now believe the news of its fall.

MR. J. LOWTHER

May I ask if the M. Cuzzi alluded to in the Question is the same person as was described by the noble Lord some time ago as General Gordon's agent at Berber?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

There is no doubt he is the same person.

MR. BOURKE

In consequence of the information that has just been re- ceived, I beg to give Notice that on Thursday I will ask Her Majesty's Government what measures they propose to take for the protection of Upper Egypt?

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

With regard to the noble Lord's statement that Berber had fallen, I beg to ask him if the telegram published this morning is correct—namely, that the defenders bravely fought for two hours, and then, their ammunition being exhausted, the rebels rushed into the town and slaughtered 1,500 of the garrison and 2,000 of the male population; and if that statement is correct, I ask the Prime Minister whether he now withdraws his statement that there is not the slightest risk of the garrison of Berber meeting with the same fate as that of Sinkat?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE

When I answered the hon. Gentleman's Question I gave all the information in the hands of the Government.

MR. GLADSTONE

If the hon. Gentleman quotes me, I must ask him to cite the declaration as it was made by me.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

Fortunately I am able to quote the right hon. Gentleman's exact words. On the 24th of April the right hon. Gentleman was asked if there was any danger that the garrison of Berber might share the fate of the garrison of Sinkat. His reply was— We have no reason to believe there is any risk at Berber of any such thing.

MR. GLADSTONE

What is the date of that?

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

April 24.