HC Deb 06 March 1883 vol 276 cc1601-3
MR. GIBSON

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, "Whether, before taking the Contract for the carriage of the Irish Mails from an Irish Company, the Government provided that the London and North Western Railway Company would carry the Mails between Holyhead and Dublin in vessels equal to the existing Mail Packets in size, power, and draught of water; and, whether any and what provision was made with the London and North Western Hallway Company as to the size of the Mail Packets they would use in the service, and the convenience of passengers, so as to ensure that the accommodation would not be lessened, and the charges would not be increased?

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

Sir, in connection with this Question, I would like to ask the hon. Gentleman whether it is true that the smallest mail boat at present in use is 343 feet in length, and 1,467 tons register, while the Lily and the Violet, which are of the same class as those about to be substituted, are only 230 feet long and 1,031 tons register?

MR. COURTNEY

It is quite impossible for me to answer that Question without having Notice. I am not furnished with the dimensions of the particular ships about to be furnished. ["Oh, oh!"] I say it is impossible for me to know the exact size of the vessels. With respect to the Question of my right hon. and learned Friend, I have to say that the form of tender for the mail service referred to is in the usual terms, that a sufficient number of steam vessels of adequate power, and in all respects suited for the service, should be supplied; and that, before they are supplied under the contract, they should be submitted for approval to the Postmaster General. If I understand his Question rightly, my right hon. and learned Friend seems to think the contract should contain regulations for the passenger service. I must point out that that is not the primary object of the contract.

MR. GIBSON

Was any provision whatever made for the accommodation of passengers?

MR. COURTNEY

The usual provision. The terms of the contract are that the vessels should be adequate in all respects for the service.

MR. GIBSON

Has any arrangement whatever been made to prevent the London and North Western Railway giving inferior accommodation, and increasing their prices after they had obtained the contract?

MR. DAWSON

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that it is the intention of the London and North Western Railway, expressed with the assent of the Government, to change the port of entry from Kingstown to Dublin; and is he not also perfectly well aware that steamers of a sufficient tonnage and size, such as are required for the mail and passenger service, cannot be used in the river transit of Dublin, which is already subject to several collisions even at the present time?

MR. COURTNEY

I must say that it is not the fact that the vessels are intended to go to the North Wall. The contract requires that the vessels shall run to Kingstown or North Wall as the Government may direct; and I may say that, from the information in the hands of the Government at present, they think the North Wall is totally out of the question. In reply to my right hon. and learned Friend opposite (Mr. Gibson), I must repeat that the contract referred to the postal service, and required that the vessels should be of sufficient dimensions to meet the requirements of the service adequately, and that they should first of all be approved by the Postmaster General.

MR. PARNELL

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether it is the intention of the Department to insist that the vessels for the mail service shall be equal in size, tonnage, and seaworthy capacity to those which have been performing the service since 1859; or whether the Department intends to permit an inferior class of vessels to those which ran 23 years ago to be put on this important service?

MR. COURTNEY

I think the Question is already answered in the answer I have already given. The object of the Treasury and of the Post Office is to obtain the due carriage of the mails, and we have undertaken a contract for the Company to secure that the vessels shall be adequate and in all respects sufficient for the service. No vessels would be put on the service that are not previously approved by the Postmaster General. The carriage of passengers is not the primary part of the Government's duties. ["Oh, oh!"]

MR. GIBSON

Is it any part, primary or secondary?

MR. COURTNEY

I do not think it is the duty of the Government to provide for the carriage of passengers. ["Oh, oh!"]

MR. O'DONNELL

In consequence of the declaration of the Government that they do not intend to consult the convenience of Irish Members obliged to attend in this House, I beg to give Notice that I will raise this question when the salary of the hon. Gentleman the Secretary to the Treasury comes up for consideration, and also that legislation promoted by the London and North Western Railway Company will obtain the attention of Irish Members for the future.