HC Deb 16 July 1883 vol 281 cc1510-2
MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHY

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether, considering the emphatic denials given by the Reverend James M'Fadden, P.P. of Gweedore, and by Mr. and Mrs. Ernest Hart, to the official representations as to the condition of distress in Gweedore and the surrounding districts, he will direct that an inquiry should be made by impartial investigators with a view to ascertain the truth; and, whether he has heard that the Reverend Mr. M'Fadden demands a house-to-house inquiry on the subject? In justification of his Question, he would read a telegram which he had received from the Rev. Mr. M'Fadden— Deny the statement of the Chief Secretary on Monday night as to the state of Gweedore. I repeat that the distress in it is general and intense, and I challenge inquiry.

MR. TREVELYAN

Sir, the Government has every confidence in the impartiality and ability of the two Inspectors of the Local Government Board. They are Mr. M'Farlane, the permanent Inspector, and Dr. Wodehouse, temporary officer, and their Reports are relied on. The Government see no necessity for ordering an inquiry to be held by any other person. I have said over and over again, and I repeat it now, that I have received Reports and other information, verbal sometimes, from individuals who have equal means of informing themselves with Mr. Ernest Hart, and who take a very different view from him, and the same view as the Government. With regard to the suggested house-to-house inquiry, I may observe that it is the duty of the relieving officer to visit the houses of all applicants for relief, and to examine into their circumstances, and report to the Guardians.

MR. CALLAN

said, that, in consequence of the answer just given, he should, on Thursday, ask the Chief Secretary whether his attention had been called to the evidence given on oath by Rev. Father Gallagher (who accompanied the Chief Secretary on his tour through Donegal) before the Land Sub-Commissioners at Carrick showing the reality of the distress, when the rev. gentleman declared on oath that many persons had died during the last year in the parishes around from the effects of hunger, and that many more would have died but for his relief, and that early in this year the hungry had to choose between eating the worst kind of seaweed or starvation? He would also ask if the Local Government Board were prepared to give an inquiry, or whether they were still of opinion that Father Gallagher's evidence was false, or, admitting it to be true, were they still determined to refuse outdoor relief, and to insist upon the "pinch of hunger" test?

MR. O'KELLY

In connection with this matter of Government Inspectors, I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that a Report was made by a Government Inspector in relation to the district of Lough Glynn, in the county Roscommon, in which the Government Inspector denied the existence of extreme poverty; and whether, since then, he has received a very largely signed appeal from that district, signed by, amongst others, the parish priest, in which it is distinctly stated that this Government Inspector never appeared in the district, and never inquired from anyone in that district in reference to the existence of distress?

MR. TREVELYAN

I had the whole case before me this morning, and examined it very carefully. If the hon. Member desires to put a further Question, and will give me Notice, I will answer it.

MR. O'BRIEN

In reference to the right hon. Gentleman's reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Longford (Mr. Justin M'Carthy), I would like to ask whether, now that there are distinct charges made upon one side that the people have been allowed to die of starvation, and upon the other side, by the right hon. Gentleman himself, that the priests have been guilty of deliberate and wilful misrepresentation [Cries of "Order!"]

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is now introducing matters of controversy.

MR. O'BRIEN

I merely propose to ask, Sir, whether, in view of the facts to which I have referred, the right hon. Gentleman will give the public no sort of opportunity for determining the truth of what is a very terrible scandal?

MR. TREVELYAN

As Chief Secretary for Ireland, I must protest against the statement that I have charged these reverend gentlemen with misrepresentation. What I said was that I had received information which led me to a different conclusion.