HC Deb 16 April 1883 vol 278 cc312-4
MR. PARNELL

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If he will communicate to the House the names of the witnesses for the defence of the prisoner Brady, who were examined by Mr. Curran at the private inquiry held under the provisions of section 16 of the Crimes Act, and the dates of such several examinations; and, whe- ther a prison official was present within hearing at any of the interviews of Brady and his legal adviser; and, if so, whether he can give the dates of such interviews?

MR. TREVELYAN

Sir, the only witness for the defence who was examined by Mr. Curran at the inquiry held under the Crimes Act was Thomas Little. He was examined on the 5th and 22nd of March; and I am informed, in a letter from Mr. Curran, that the reason he was examined was because persons who are under the suspicion of belonging to a secret society were known to have met frequently at his house, and he was examined because it was thought useful information could be obtained from him. In reply to an hon. Member, I have already stated that it was on the 7th April the names of the witnesses for the defence were communicated to the Crown Solicitor. I am informed that the prison officials were not within hearing at any interviews 'between the prisoners and their solicitors, and the Governor of Kilmainham Prison informs me that this rule was strictly observed in the case of Brady.

MR. PARNELL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, arising out of the Question to the Chief Secretary, Whether he intends to take a similar course with reference to the prisoners charged with being concerned in the illegal possession of explosives as that adopted by the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant—that is to say, whether he intends to have the prison officials at interviews between prisoners and their legal advisers out of hearing, although within sight?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I have given instructions that the persons accused of being in possession of nitroglycerine, and acting in concert with persons outside, shall have no opportunity of making any communication to those persons outside which is not known to the police.

MR. PARNELL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, Whether he proposes to carry out the provisions of the Statute passed by this House in 1877, with regard to the treatment of untried prisoners; whether he will carry out the Rules framed by his Predecessor in the Home Office, which provide that persons who are awaiting trial shall be permitted to have interviews with their legal advisers in the presence, though not in the hearing, of a prison official?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

Sir, if I should find that the Prison Rules, as laid down, are, in my opinion, inconsistent with the public safety, I shall ask the authority of the House to act as the necessity of the ease requires.

MR. PARNELL

That is no reply to my Question, which is a plain one. I must therefore ask the right hon. Gentleman to reply to it—for he has twice evaded doing so—otherwise I shall put it on the Paper. It is, Whether the Prison Rules, made under the authority of the Prison Act of 1877, by his Predecessor in Office, and the Statute which was passed by the last Parliament will be carried out?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

Sir, the answer I have given is, I think, certainly distinct enough. If the hon. Member does not think it so, it is open to him to take any measures he thinks fit to obtain a more explicit answer. My intention is plain, and it is to take those measures which, in my opinion, are necessary for the public safety.

MR. PARNELL

I shall put the Question to-morrow to the right hon. Gentleman?