HC Deb 09 November 1882 vol 274 cc1121-3
SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Where the rules regulating the connection of the Civil Servants of the State with financial and commercial undertakings, and their acceptance of paid offices under private bodies, are to be found; and, if these rules are not already accessible to Members of the House, whether he will cause them to be laid upon the Table?

MR. J. G. HUBBARD

asked, Whether officials in the Public Service are at liberty to engage as promoters, trustees, or directors in financial, commercial, or industrial adventures, a failure in which might involve them in pecuniary embarrassment, or in personal discredit, entailing a reproach upon the Public Service, and possibly endangering our relations with other States; whether the Public Servants of this Country are adequately remunerated for the services to which the State has an exclusive claim; or whether there exists any excuse or sanction for men already in the service of the State supplementing their official salaries by private engagements; and, whether, in the event of there being no excuse or sanction for the practice, the right hon. Gentleman will take effectual means to announce and enforce his disapproval?

MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD

said, that, as both these Questions had arisen out of a Question put by him on Monday, he desired to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman had received any information from Sir Rivers Wilson that he had resigned, or intended to resign, his position as Trustee of the Eagle Pass and Air Line Railway?

MR. GLADSTONE

On Tuesday night, after the first Question on the subject was put by my hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Mr. Arnold), Sir Rivers Wilson wrote a note to me which reached me in this House on that day, but too late for me to make use of it within the regular time. In that note, without at all retracting what he had previously stated as to the soundness of this undertaking and the compatibility of the functions he should have to discharge with his official duties, he used these words— I cannot for a moment think of retaining it"—the office of trust in question—"after learning that the propriety of my doing so has been openly called in question in the House of Parliament. I think the House will appreciate this feeling on the part of Sir Rivers Wilson. He does not wish that any action of his which might appear inconsistent with the efficient discharge of his public duty should be persisted in. With regard to the general Questions of my right hon. Friend (Mr. Hubbard), whether the public servants of this country are adequately remunerated for the service to which the State has an exclusive claim, perhaps he will excuse my answering it; but there is no doubt that the claim of the State is exclusive. With respect to the various points in his Question, and that of my hon. Friend (Sir George Campbell), I have to state that this is a subject which, from time to time, has in my experience been regarded as one of considerable difficulty; and undoubtedly the great multiplication and extension of joint-stock enterprises has rendered it a subject of greater difficulty than it was in former times. There is a rule of the Treasury—and it is construed as an absolute rule, though I do not know that the terms absolutely amount to that—that no person in the Treasury, as I believe and am informed, takes any office or employment whatever of this kind outside the range of his official duties. But my right hon. Friend seems to be under the impression that it is in my power to issue an order obligatory on the entire Civil Service. That is not so. The power of the Treasury is strictly limited to certain special Departments, and it is in respect of these that we enforce the rule. During the long time I held the Office of Chancellor of the Exchequer, the question never came before me until the last day or two. But the rule does not prevail throughout the Civil Service. I do not know that there are many cases at variance with the rule; but I cannot say that the observance of it is uniform. What I propose to do is to lay on the Table the Treasury rule, together with a Paper which refers to the investigations of an official Committee. Sir Ralph Lingen, Permanent Under Secretary of the Treasury, who is known, as he deserves to be, as a most able and experienced officer, happens to have paid great attention to this subject. I believe a few days ago he commenced his short vacation, and has left the country for a few weeks. But upon his return I propose to confer further with him on the subject.