HC Deb 15 May 1882 vol 269 cc672-5
MR. PULESTON (for Mr. LEWIS)

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he will now produce the documentary evidence of the intentions of the recently-imprisoned Members of this House with reference to their conduct if released from custody; which evidence the First Lord of the Treasury stated had reached him through the late Chief Secretary?

MR. GLADSTONE

Sir, the documentary evidence referred to in this Question consists of certain letters between Members of this House. Their production would not come under any usual Rule that I am aware of, and there is no reason at present why they should be produced; in fact, I think it would be open to objection as tending to diminish the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government.

MR. PARNELL

Perhaps it may be better if I am permitted to read the letter in question—the letter which, as I understand, forms the documentary evidence alluded to in the Question. I will read it to the House. It consists of a letter from myself to the hon. Member for the County of Clare (Mr. O'Shea). It is headed "Private and Confidential." It is dated from Kilmainham, April 28th, 1882, and it is in the following terms:— I was very sorry that you had left Albert Mansions before I reached London from Eltham, as I had wished to tell you that, after our conversation, I had made up my mind that it would be proper for me to put Mr. M'Carthy in possession of the views which I had previously communicated to you. I desire to impress upon you the absolute necessity of a settlement of the arrears question, which will leave no recurring sore connected with it behind, and which will enable us to show the smaller tenantry that they have been treated with justice and some generosity. The proposal you have described to me, as suggested in some quarters, of making a loan over however many years the payment might be spread, should be absolutely rejected, for reasons which I have already fully explained to you. If the arrears question be settled upon the lines indicated by us, I have every confidence—a confidence shared by my Colleagues—that the exertions which we should be able to make, strenuously and unremittingly, would be effective in stopping outrages and intimidation of all kinds. As regards permanent legislation of an ameliorating character, I may say that the views which you always shared with me, as to the admission of leaseholders to the fair-rent clauses of the Act, are more confirmed than ever. So long as the flower of the Irish peasantry are kept outside the Act there cannot be the permanent settlement of the Land Act which we all so much desire. I should also strongly hope that some compromise might be arrived at this Session with regard to the amendment of the tenure clauses of the Land Act. It is unnecessary for me to dwell upon the enormous advantage to be derived from the full extension of the purchase clauses, which now seem practically to have been adopted by all parties. The accomplishment of the programme I have sketched out to you would, in my judgment, be regarded by the country as a practical settlement of the Land Question, and I believe that the Government at the end of this Session would, from the state of the country, feel themselves thoroughly justified in dispensing with further coercive measures.—Yours, very truly—

Then follows my signature.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

I should like to ask the Prime Minister, whether the letter which we have just heard read by the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell) is the only letter which constituted the documentary evidence referred to in the Question of the hon. Member for Londonderry?

MR. W. E. FORSTER

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers that Question, might I be allowed to ask the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell) did he read the whole of the letter?

MR. PARNELL

I did not keep a copy of the letter in question. My hon. Friend the Member for Clare (Mr. O'Shea) has furnished me with a copy, and it may be possible that one paragraph has been omitted; but, speaking for myself, I have no objection to the hon. Member, if he desires it, communicating the whole of the letter as I wrote it to the House.

MR. GLADSTONE

When I spoke in answer to the former Question, I spoke in the plural number; therefore, it would be obvious that I had some information over and above what was con- tained in that letter; nothing, however, I am bound to say, in the slightest degree qualifying or contradicting it.

MR. WARTON

Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman, whether the second letter was one from the hon. and learned Member for Dundalk (Mr. Charles Russell) expressing his opinion?

MR. O'SHEA

I think the best plan would be that I should take the earliest opportunity of explaining every detail in connection with this matter. [Cries of "Read, read!"] I have not the document with me, and am, therefore, unable to read it. [A document was here handed to the hon. Member, who had resumed his seat, by Mr. W. E. FORSTER.]

MR. O'SHEA

, again rising: A copy of the letter in question has been put in my hands. [Cries of "Read!"] I do not think it is fair——

MR. W. E. FORSTER

Read the last paragraph.

MR. O'SHEA

Very well; I will read the whole letter. [The hon. Member then read the same letter as that read to the House by the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell), the concluding paragraph of which was, however, in the following terms]:— The accomplishment of the programme I have sketched out to you would, in my judgment, be regarded by the country as a practical settlement of the Land Question, and would, I feel sure, enable us to co-operate cordially for the future with the Liberal Party in forwarding Liberal principles; and I believe that the Government at the end of the Session would, from the state of the country, feel themselves thoroughly justified in dispensing with future coercive measures.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman the late Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether he obtained the copy of the letter of my hon. Friend the Member for Cork City (Mr. Parnell) as a Member of the Cabinet of which he was recently a Member?

MR. W. E. FORSTER

not rising,

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

I will repeat the Question for the benefit of the right hon. Gentleman. [The hon. Member repeated the Question.]

MR. W. E. FORSTER

The hon. Member for Clare——[Cries of "Order, order!"]

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member for Galway (Mr. T. P. O'Connor) is not entitled to ask that Question, because it does not relate to any Bill or Motion before the House.

MR. ONSLOW

I wish to ask a Question, Sir, with reference to this letter, which has been written by the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell). I wish to ask the Prime Minister, whether the right hon. Gentleman had seen that letter before he informed the House that no understanding whatever had arisen between himself and the hon. Member for the City of Cork prior to the liberation of the "suspects" from Kilmainham?

Mr. DILLWYN

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, whether any other correspondence passed between Her Majesty's Government and the hon. Member for the City of Cork?

MR. GLADSTONE

Sir, I think if the hon. Member refers to the answer which I have just given to the noble Lord opposite (Lord John Manners), he will see that I stated that that was not the only letter which has been brought to my knowledge. With regard to the Question just put to me by the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Onslow), I had seen that letter. I did say, and I repeat now, that there never was the slightest understanding of any kind between the hon. Member for the City of Cork and the Government. The hon. Member for the City of Cork asked nothing from us, and he got nothing from us. On our side, we asked nothing, and got nothing from him.

MR. RITCHIE

Do the "some quarters" referred to in the letter of the hon. Member for the City of Cork, from whence the proposition with reference to the arrears came, mean that it was from Her Majesty's Government?

MR. GLADSTONE

No.