HC Deb 27 March 1882 vol 268 cc114-6

Order for Committee read.

MR. HIBBERT

said, that, although there was a blocking Notice against going into Committee on this Bill, he thought he should be in Order in moving that Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair, in order to commit the measure pro formâ, and have Amendments printed in it. He wished to have the Bill reprinted, and so save time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."—(Mr. Hibbert.)

Motion agreed to.

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

MR. CALLAN

Is this Committee on the Municipal Corporations Bill?

THE CHAIRMAN

It is.

MR. CALLAN

I beg to call your attention to the front page of the Notice Paper. There is a blocking Motion against this Committee.

MR. HIBBERT

Perhaps the hon. Member will allow me to explain. I said I wished the Bill committed pro formâ for the purpose of having it reprinted. The blocking Notice will hold good when the Bill stands for Committee.

MR. CALLAN

said, he should be sorry to stand in the way of the courteous Secretary to the Local Government Board. He only wished the hon. Member's example of courtesy was followed by all other occupants of the Front Benches. He (Mr. Callan) only rose as a matter of Order to ask whe- ther it was competent for such a Motion as this to be made with a blocking Notice on the Paper?

THE CHAIRMAN

It is strictly in accordance with the ordinary practice of the House where the intention is simply to print Amendments. The block will stand good against the next Committee stage.

MR. HEALY

said, the Irish Members had raised this question the other night. An hon. Member had a Registration Bill down, and he took off his hat when the Order was called on moving "That it be now considered. "The Motion was objected to, and Mr. Speaker ruled that, as there was a blocking Notice against the measure, it could not be proceeded with. He (Mr. Healy) would ask of what use was this blocking Rule, if Members of the Government were to be allowed to play fast and loose with it?

THE CHAIRMAN

If there was any question to be raised, the hon. Member should have raised it when Mr. Speaker was leaving the Chair. But there was no question to be raised, because it is the rule to go into Committee on a Bill pro formâ, notwithstanding that there is a blocking Notice down.

MR. HEALY

said, as a point of Order, he would point out that no one could possibly have known what was the intention of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Oldham (Mr. Hibbert).

MR. HIBBERT

I stated openly that I wished the House to go into Committee on the Bill, in order merely to have certain Amendments printed in the measure. The arrangement proposed was for the convenience of the House, and the block will still hold good. I should explain that before I made the Motion I was told both by the Speaker and the Clerks at the Table that I should be perfectly in Order.

Bill reported; to be printed, as amended [Bill 113]; re-committed for Monday next.

House resumed.

MR. HEALY

said, he wished to call Mr. Speaker's attention to a point of Order. The hon. Member for Oldham had moved to go into Committee on a Bill against which there was a blocking Notice on the Paper; and he (Mr. Healy) wished to ask whether it was competent for the hon. Member, under such circumstances, to persevere with his Motion. The block was to prevent Mr. Speaker from leaving the Chair, and he should like to ask where hon. Members could find directions on this point in previous Rulings or in any work on the Practice of the House?

MR. CALLAN

said, the Chairman of Committees had stated, as his excuse for allowing the Committee to go on, that the proper time for objecting to the stage being taken was not in Committee, but when the Motion was made to get Mr. Speaker out of the Chair. The hon. Member for Oldham had said that before he made the Motion he had consulted him (Mr. Speaker) and the Chairman of Committees. He (Mr. Callan) wished, therefore, to know how the Chairman of Committees could explain his statement that the proper time to object was when the Motion was made for Mr. Speaker to leave the Chair? If the hon. Member had consulted Mr. Speaker and the Chairman of Committees—

MR. LYON PLAYFAIR

The hon. Member said, "Mr. Speaker and the Clerks at the Table."

MR. CALLAN

said, he wished, then, to know who was right? Was the Chairman of Committees right in his opinion that the proper time to object was when the Motion was made "That Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair?" The Chairman of Committees had expressed that opinion in such a manner as to lead to the inference that if objection had been made at the proper time, it would have been fatal to the Motion to commit the Bill.

MR. SPEAKER

The point raised by the hon. Member has been repeatedly ruled upon on former occasions. When a Member in charge of a Bill has desired to commit that Bill pro formâ, to have it reprinted, it has been decided that there is no objection to that Motion by reason of the Rule with regard to Opposed Business, because the Bill is again placed for Committee, and the block stands against that stage. I am bound to say that the proper time to raise this question would have been on the Motion "That Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair." If it had been raised then, I should have ruled as I do now, and as I have done on other occasions, that the objection cannot be maintained.