HC Deb 14 July 1882 vol 272 cc454-8
SIR HENRY PEEK

asked whether it was true that the "Glenlyon" steamer had been looted by Arabs in the Suez Canal?

MR. CHAMBERLAIN

Sir, I suppose this Question would be more properly addressed to the Secretary to the Admiralty; but, in view of the great interest felt in the subject, I may say that I have made inquiries, and I find that neither at the Foreign Office nor at the Admiralty have they any official confirmation of the report. At the same time, I ought to add that on the receipt of the report steps were immediately taken at the Admiralty to ascertain its truth, and I understand that the Secretary to the Admiralty will be prepared to state them to the House.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

In answer to this Question, and also to one previously asked with respect to the steps taken to protect vessels passing through the Canal, I have the following statement to make. Yesterday afternoon we asked the senior officers at Port Said and Suez whether traffic was proceeding as usual through the Canal. At half-past 9 last night, Commander Edwards of the Ready, at Suez, telegraphed in reply—"Canal traffic as usual." At 20 minutes to 12 last night, Captain Seymour, of the Iris, at Port Said, reported that several steamers were waiting to pass the Canal. The senior officer at Port Said has been authorized, under the circumstances, to employ the gunboats now stationed at Suez and Port Said to accompany British vessels passing through the Canal if it should be found necessary. Inquiries have been made as to the accuracy of the report in this morning's papers that the British ship Glenlyon was ashore in the Canal, and was being looted by Arabs, and we have just received information that the Glenlyon has passed through the Canal.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE

I beg to ask whether the Government has any further information with regard to the state of affairs in Alexandria which they can communicate to the House, either as to the state of the town or as to the amount of destruction; also, whether they can say anything with reference to the report that Arabi Pasha has left his Army?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

With regard to the last point, Mr. Cartwright, in his telegram, dated 7 a.m., a portion of which has been read, said that efforts were being made to disperse the mob, and that Arabi had fled in a boat on the Canal, it was not known where. His troops are believed to be dispersing; but it is somewhat hypothetical information.

MR. M'COAN

Will the proceedings at the Conference interfere with or impede any further military action at Alexandria, should circumstances make it expedient?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I must really ask for Notice; but even with Notice I do not think it is a Question which it will be possible for me to answer.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

Can the hon. Gentleman state how many thousands of Europeans wore massacred at Alexandria?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

Neither Sir Beauchamp Seymour nor Mr. Cartwright has mentioned a massacre. Several persons are mentioned as having been killed; but there is no mention of a massacre on a large scale. They do not use the word massacre.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE

I do not know whether or not an answer can be given to my Question—whether the Government can give us any general account as to the present state of things in Alexandria?

MR. GLADSTONE

No, Sir; I think the statement of my hon. Friend the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs was meant as an answer to the Question of the right hon. Gentleman. It contains all the information we have.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

In order to complete the answer, perhaps I may read a telegram which appears in the early editions of the papers, which is the only telegram received at the Admiralty. It is dated 7.10, and is as follows:— Regret distance from cable ship impedes my telegraphing rapidly. Have occupied Ras-el-Tin with marines of squadron, and spiked guns in six batteries opposite. Alexandria still burning, but am clearing streets. Khedive safe in Palace, garrisoned by 700 marines. Please express thanks of officers and men of the squadron for the gracious and kind message from Her Majesty. Conduct of officers and men beyond all praise. In reply to message from Her Majesty, majority of wounded doing well, including Lieutenant Jackson, of Inflexible." We replied to that telegram, stating that the proceedings of the Admiral were approved.

SIR HENRY TYLER

Have the Marines been landed for police purposes?

MR. J. LOWTHER

It was mentioned yesterday, in a telegram which was read, that Admiral Seymour was instructed to place himself, if necessary, in communication with the Ottoman Commissioner, Dervish Pasha. I would like to ask if the Government have any information as to the whereabouts and attitude of Dervish Pasha, and as to whether he is associated with the Khedive in these attempts to restore order?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I must refer the right hon. Gentleman to the Admiralty telegrams, because the Foreign Office telegrams are silent upon that point. I believe the whereabouts of Dervish Pasha were mentioned last night.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

That was a short telegram received last evening to the effect that the Khedive and Dervish Pasha were reported safe on board ship in the harbour.

MR. J. LOWTHER

The Question is, whether he was associated with the Khedive in the attempts to restore order?

LORD EUSTACE CECIL

I beg to give Notice that on Monday I shall ask the Secretary for War, If it is true, as stated in the newspapers, that 5,000 mules have been purchased in Spain and Algiers, at a cost of not less than £100,000, and under what Vote in the Army Estimates this amount would be forthcoming; and, failing such provision, to ask how soon it is the intention of the Government to ask for a Vote of Credit?

MR. CHILDERS

I can answer the Question at once; there is no truth in the report.

MR. BOURKE

I wish to give Notice that on Monday I will ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can give any information with regard to the Conference?

SIR WILFRID LAWSON

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a Question, which I think is of some importance, and I hope that he will be able to answer it now. A telegram in The Standard states— When morning broke on Tuesday —that is, before the bombardment commenced— a deputation of Turkish officials waited upon the Admiral, with a letter from the Ministry. In this communication the deputation, deprecating hostilities, offered to dismount their guns and give satisfaction to the British demands. The Admiral replied that the time for negotiation had passed. I wish to ask my hon. Friend, if that were so, whether that answer was given with or without the knowledge of the Home Government?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

I saw the statement in The Standard; but we have had no sort of confirmation of it or any statement in the least in that direction from the Admiral. There is nothing in the least bearing upon the question. I would advise my hon. Friend to put any further Questions upon the subject to the Admiralty, because it more strictly concerns them.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON

A similar statement has appeared in The Times. I beg to give Notice that I will repeat the Question to the Secretary to the Admiralty; and I hope that they will inquire into the truth of the report in the meantime.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

I may say at once that no such information has reached the Admiralty.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON

Will my hon. Friend make inquiries as to whether there is any truth in it?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

The Admiralty have generally avoided sending inquiries to Sir Beauchamp Seymour, thinking it undesirable in the present circumstances to trouble him unnecessarily.

MR. M'CULLAGH TORRENS

I beg to ask whether any information has been received as to the removal of the archives and records of the European Courts at Alexandria before the conflagration began?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

May I supplement that Question by an- other? I understood the hon. Gentleman to have read only a portion of the telegram he had received from Mr. Cartwright. I wish to ask whether he could, without detriment to the Public Service, give any further information?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE

No, Sir. I have given almost the whole of the telegram. The small omission I made was one I thought in the interests of the Public Service. It was only two or three words. With regard to the archives and records of the Courts, no information has been received; but I think the matter is one of such importance that I will see that a telegram is addressed to Mr. Cartwright upon the subject.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

I wish to ask the Prime Minister by what authority Mr. Cartwright makes use of the expression, which the right hon. Gentleman emphasized, that "the troops that were about the Khedive were left by Arabi for the purpose of watching him?"

MR. GLADSTONE

Well, I do not know what the hon. Member means by "emphasizing." I merely called attention to the words themselves. Nor have we the means of knowing on what authority Mr. Cartwright makes his statement; but generally he has been very accurate and careful in the telegrams he has sent. Of course, in a period like this, he may be misinformed, and we must not take it that he is absolutely certain on every point; but we have very great confidence in his care and discretion.