HC Deb 10 July 1882 vol 271 cc1965-7
SIR WILFRID LAWSON

I beg to ask the Prime Minister a Question I think he can answer at once. It is, whether, before the Fleet are allowed to bombard the Egyptian forts, any declaration of war will be made, stating the grounds on which it is intended to attack the Egyptians?

VISCOUNT FOLKESTONE

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers that Question, I should like to ask, if there is a declaration of war, to whom it will be addressed—to the Sultan, to the Khedive, or to Arabi?

MR. GLADSTONE

On this subject I have nothing whatever to add to the information which has been given by the hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. I should not admit that attacking the Egyptians was a proper and accurate description of the measure to be taken; it is considered by us to be a purely defensive measure, necessary for the security of the Fleet.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whom the Fleet is going to attack, if not the Egyptian people?

[No reply was given.]

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

wished to ask whether the Sultan, who was the Sovereign of Egypt, or the Conference at Constantinople had given their assent to the proposed bombardment of Alexandria?

[No reply was given.]

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

said, he would repeat the Question to-morrow.

MR. C. SEELY (Nottingham)

I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the bombardment of the Egyptian forts will not be, as a matter of fact, a declaration of war against Turkey; and whether, if that is the case, it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to adopt the usual course of withdrawing Her Majesty's Ambassador from Constantinople?

[No reply was given.]

MR. C. SEELY (Nottingham)

I do not often interfere; but it is idle to give Notice of a Question of this kind when the Fleet may commence operations at 6 o'clock to-morrow morning; and I beg again to ask the Prime Minister whether the Government would tell the House whether the action of the English Fleet, which we are told is contemplated, will or will not be a declaration against Turkey; whether, if that is the case, Her Majesty's Government intend to adopt the usual course of withdrawing Her Majesty's Ambassador from Constantinople in view of such a course; and, whether the adoption of that course is not, as a matter of fact, an infraction of the Treaty of Berlin and several other Treaties? I beg to ask that Question, and, if necessary, I will conclude with a Motion.

MR. GLADSTONE

The repetition of the original Question does not at all alter my position. I can perfectly understand that the hon. Member might have reasons for pressing the Question, and for urging the Government to give the best answer to it in their power, if that answer were an answer which could in any way influence the action or the policy of the Government; but no answer that I could give, or that the hon. Member could receive, could have that effect. That being so, the hon. Gentleman will see that he is putting to me a Question involving several assumptions, some of them of very considerable nicety, which I am by no means prepared to admit on the moment. I must certainly fortify myself by reference to better authorities before admitting that the assumptions which appear to be involved in the Question are correct assumptions. It is by no means with a view to baffle the hon. Member's purpose that I ask for Notice; but simply in order that I may be able to give an answer embodying full and accurate information.

MR. C. SEELY (Nottingham)

I would ask, then, another Question. What is the object for which the Fleet is to bombard the Egyptian forts? As I understand it, there is no question whatever now of danger to British life and property.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is not now confining himself to his Question, but is travelling into a matter of debate.

MR. C. SEELY (Nottingham)

I will ask the right hon. Gentleman this definite Question—What is the object for which the Fleet is to bombard the forts of Alexandria; and, whether there is any danger to the lives and property of British subjects in Egypt?

MR. GLADSTONE

It is not a question of immediate danger to British subjects in Alexandria. I have very great doubt, at this moment, if there are any British subjects there. The instructions given by Her Majesty's Government have had reference to the security of Her Majesty's ships.

MR. C. SEELY (Nottingham)

I am very sorry to be perpetually asking Questions. I again ask whether there are not sufficient ships in front of the harbour of sufficient power to destroy the Egyptian forts at any time that may be necessary—say in a week's time—even allowing that the Egyptians mounted all the guns in Egypt at the present time. If that be the case, what is the object of the bombardment?

[No reply was given.]