HC Deb 03 August 1882 vol 273 cc630-3

Clause 13 (Area of service of Militia).

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

moved, in page 6, line 24, after "part," insert— And such volunteers from the Militia shall be formed into separate battalions and companies, and provided with such staff of officers and men of the Regular Forces as may be prescribed by a Secretary of State, or may be attached to and form part for the time of such corps of the Regular Forces under regulations as may be issued by any officers to whom Her Majesty may, by the advice of a Secretary of State, delegate powers.

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

SIR ARTHUR HAYTER

said, it was impossible for the Government to accept this Amendment. In point of fact, it was altogether contrary to the whole spirit of the clause. The clause, as it stood, re-enacted the existing law under the 38 & 39 Vict. c. 68. ss. 49 & 50, and empowered Her Majesty, if she thought fit, to employ the Militia in the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, Malta, and Gibraltar, but only when a voluntary offer of service was made. What the hon. and gallant Member now proposed was that the Militia should be allowed to volunteer and form separate corps of Volunteers to be attached to, and form part of, the Regular Forces, being officered by officers of the Regular Army. That would be altogether contrary to the present system. It would create a special corps of Volunteers, and entirely alter the existing law. Norwould it prove very effective, because, as a rule, militiamen desired to serve with their own bodies, under their own officers. For these reasons, he felt bound to oppose the Amendment.

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

said, that it was part of the old system to allow volunteers from the Militia to serve with the Regular Army. He believed that it would be found that in 1756, when the present system of Militia came in force, such a practice was in existence. At the same time, if the Government did not think it desirable to insert the Amendment, he would not press it upon them, but would withdraw it

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 14 (Oath of allegiance of militiaman) agreed to.

Clause 15 (Preliminary training of Militia recruits).

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

moved, in page 6, line 39, insert— And may be trained by such staff of officers and men of the Regular Forces or of the Militia, as may be prescribed.

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

THE JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN)

said, he would accept the Amendment; but it would be necessary to insert after "officers," the words "non-commissioned officers."

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

said, he accepted the proposed alteration.

Amendment proposed to said proposed Amendment, to insert after "officers," "non-commissioned officers."—(Mr. Osborne Morgan.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 16 to 25, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 26 (Punishment for inducing militiaman to desert or absent himself).

THE JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN)

said, he had an Amendment to propose in this clause similar to the one which he had already explained in dealing with the corresponding clause of the Reserve Forces Consolidation Bill. He proposed, in page 10, line 39, to leave out "to," and insert "as if."

Question, "That the word 'to' stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived.

Question, "That the words 'as if' be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

On the Motion of The JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, Amendment made, in page 10, line 39, by leaving out the words "in like manner as if such militiaman."

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 27 (Fraudulent enlistment, or false answer of militiaman) agreed to.

Clause 28 (Liability of deserter, absentee, or fraudulent enlister to further service).

On the Motion of The JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, Amendment made, in page 12, line 11, after "deserter," by inserting "or absentee without leave."

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 29 (Record of illegal absence of militiaman) agreed to.

Clause 30 (Appointment of lieutenants of counties) agreed to.

Clause 31 (Appointment, approval, and removal of deputy lieutenants).

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

moved, in page 13, line 26, after "Act," insert— And a Return of all persons by name who have been appointed deputy lieutenants or have ceased, shall be annually laid before Parliament, made up to thirty-first December, within ten days after Parliament meets.

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

THE JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN)

said, he had no objection to the Amendment.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 32 to 42, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 43 (Trial of offences and recovery and application of fines under Militia Acts).

On the Motion of The JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, Amendment made, in page 17, line 8, after "shall," by in- serting "notwithstanding anything in any other Act contained."

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

House resumed.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered To-morrow.