HC Deb 26 May 1881 vol 261 cc1318-21
MR. THOROLD ROGERS

asked the Right honourable Baronet, the senior Member for the University of Oxford, Whether the members of the governing body of Westminster School, present at the meeting of May 2nd (when the house of the late Sub-dean of Westminster, secured to the School by 31 and 32 Vic. c. 118, s. 20, and others vacant, was not claimed, and another house of far less dimensions, and of far less convenience for the purposes of the School, was accepted in exchange, the prospects of obtaining the latter house being contingent on the death or resignation of the occupier), were more than a moiety of the governing body; whether the members of the governing body received notice that business of the highest importance to the welfare and efficiency of the School was to come under the consideration of the governing body; whether the governing body has powers under 31 and 32 Vic. c. 118, to exchange premises secured to the School for other premises, or any premises except those provided under sub-section 13; whether the hour at which the meetings of the governing body are summoned is not fixed at a time at which it is notoriously impossible for the Right honourable the Chairman of Ways and Means to attend to the business of the School; whether there are not four Deans and two Canons of Westminster in the governing body; and, whether it is not the duty of a member of the governing body to consider the interest of the School, whose affairs he is appointed to administer, beyond everything else?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH

rose to a point of Order arising out of the Question of the hon. Member. Sir Erskine May, in his Parliamentary Practice, had laid it down that Questions might be put to Ministers of the Crown on matters of Public Business, or to private Members having charge of a Bill or Motion on the Paper of the House, or to persons occupying certain high positions. Under the latter head Questions were asked of the Chairman of the Metropolitan Board of Works, of Members serving on Parliamentary Commissions, or even on temporary Commissions, of Ecclesiastical Commissioners, or the Trustees of the British Museum. But he would ask whether the privilege of asking Questions in that House might be exercised in respect of Members who happened to be Members of the Governing Body of a school on a subject relating to the action of the Governing Body of that school? It appeared to him that if this practice was to be introduced, it would involve a dangerous extension of the right of asking Questions, and would justify Questions being addressed to any hon. Member who happened to be a Member of any public body whatever—of a Board of Guardians, or a Railway Board, or any other body acting under the authority of an Act of Parliament—with regard to matters connected with their different Boards or Companies.

MR. SPEAKER

The right hon. Baronet has, no doubt, quite correctly stated the Rule of the House that no Question shall be put to any Member of the House, other than a Minister of the Crown, unless that Question relates to some Bill or Motion that happens to be before the House. At the same time, when the Question now under discussion appeared on the Notice Paper of the House, I considered whether it was proper that the Question should be put; and it certainly did appear to me—seeing that it related to the proceedings of the Governing Body of an important public school, established by Act of Parliament—that it would not be proper for me to interpose between the hon. Member proposing to put that Question and the House.

SIR, JOHN R. MOWBRAY

In reply to this long series of Questions, mixed up with suggestions, I beg to state that, although in deference to what has fallen from the Speaker I answer the Questions put to me, I wish it to be understood that I am neither the Chairman nor a very active member of the Governing Body of Westminster School. The matters to which the series of Questions refer were discussed at two meetings of the Governing Body, duly convened, with proper notice, on March 31 and May 2. On the former day 11, on the latter 7—out of 14 in number—of the existing Governing Body were present. The Resolutions on each occasion were unanimously carried. The Governing Body resolved to take the necessary steps to acquire the late sub-Dean's house, in accordance with the Act of Parliament, and promised to take into favourable consideration any proposal in the nature of an exchange. Such proposal having been afterwards received, the Governing Body accepted an offer of another house, in their opinion adequate and convenient, with the prospect of immediate possession, and upon the understanding that an adequate space of ground would, if practicable, be provided for a fives court. The Governing Body were advised by counsel that they had the right, with consent of the Charity Commissioners, to effect such change. I know nothing of the hour fixed for the meetings. It is usually 4 o'clock, and has been found convenient for Members of both Houses of Parliament and for Judges and members of the Bar. The noble Lord the Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Richard Grosvenor), before he held Office, was a most constant attendant. Now, the hon. Member for Southwark is, we know, an accurate scholar, yet the next part of his Question is very difficult to understand. He asks me whether there are not four Deans and two Canons of Westminster in the Governing Body? The proper construction of that is that there are four Deans of Westminster. Well, there are not four Deans of Westminster; but the Dean and two Canons of Westminster and the Dean of Christ Church are members of the Governing Body ex officio. The Master of the Temple, who is also Dean of Llandaff, and Dr. Church, who is Dean of St. Paul's, have been elected members. In my opinion, it is the duty of a member of the Governing Body to consider the interests of the school beyond everything else. I can only speak for myself, without any authority to represent others. If the hon. Member for Southwark wishes to exhaust that portion of the subject, he must interrogate the Chairman of Committees (Mr. Lyon Playfair) and the other members of the Governing Body. With the majority of them, including all the four Deans, the hon. Member for Southwark is in closer political sympathy than I am.