§ (Mr. Chamberlain, Mr. Ashley.)
§ [BILL 115.] SECOND READING.
§ Order for Second Reading read.
§ MR. CHAMBERLAINIn moving the second reading of this Bill, I wish to explain that it contains only one operative clause, to which I imagine there will be no opposition. It is a Bill to explain, and to some extent amend, the Merchant Shipping Acts with reference to the measurement of ships for tonnage, and it is rendered necessary in consequence of an inadvertence, and is carrying out the recommendation of the Royal Commissioners now sitting on the tonnage question. It is desirable to pass it as speedily as possible, as otherwise ships may be built under a wrong impression as to the intentions of the law in regard to the measurement of the tonnage of ships. The usual course is to take the cubical space in order to obtain the gross tonnage, and then from the gross tonnage is deducted the space devoted to engine-room and other purposes. With those matters the Bill does not propose to interfere; but a claim has been made in certain cases to deduct from the gross tonnage the spaces which have not been included in the first instance in the gross tonnage—for instance, the space occupied by funnel casings and by skylights on deck. It is quite clear that this was not the intention of the Act, but that it was a simple inadvertence, and that ships which took advantage of the omissions in the existing law would be placed at an advantage over other vessels, and be relieved, to a certain extent, from tonnage dues. It is in order to correct that inadvertence that this Bill has been prepared, and the effect of the Bill is to provide that nothing shall be allowed to be deducted from the gross tonnage for the purpose of exemption from tonnage 132 dues which has not been in the first instance included in the gross tonnage. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(Mr. Chamberlain.)
§ MR. T. E. SMITHexpressed a hope that the right hon. Gentleman would not proceed with the Bill at that hour of the morning, because, although it seemed to be a small Bill, it involved an important question, which would seriously affect the mercantile community. A number of persons had built ships which they believed to be in accordance with the law; the law took a different view upon the question, and an action was tried which ultimately came before the House of Lords, and was decided against the Board of Trade. Since then there had been various attempts on the part of the Board of Trade to alter the law, and this was only another step in the same direction; he, therefore, trusted that the House would not proceed with legislation, until they had an opportunity of hearing the views of those who were interested in the question. The right hon. Gentleman said that a Commission was sitting on the subject. Then let them have the Report of the Commission, so that those interested in the matter, who had a large amount of property at stake, might have an opportunity of expressing their opinion on the new legislation proposed by Her Majesty's Government. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman, considering the lateness of the hour, and that a Royal Commission was sitting on the subject, not to ask the House to proceed with the Bill that night. If the right hon. Gentleman did, he must certainly move, as an Amendment, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.
§ MR. W. LOWTHER, in seconding the Amendment, said, he did so for the simple reason that the Bill only came into the hands of hon. Members that afternoon. The subject was a very important one. A Commission was already sitting upon it, and he hoped the House would not allow the Bill to be read a second time in that hurried manner.
Amendment proposed, to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day six months."—(Mr. T. E. Smith) Question proposed, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question."
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSsaid, he hoped that both the Motion and the Amendment would be withdrawn for the present. He could not imagine that the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade would wish to press forward a Bill which had not been in the hands of Members and had not been printed. [Mr. CHAMBERLAIN: It is on the Table.] It was not among the Bills lying on the Table of the House. It could be obtained at the Bill Office that afternoon; but it had not yet been delivered in the usual way.
§ MR. CHAMBERLAINsaid, he had made inquiries at the Office, and had been informed that it had been delivered that morning.
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSreplied, that the right hon. Gentleman had been wrongly informed. The Clerk at the Table had shown him a memorandum which showed that the Bill had not been delivered. It was quite impossible, therefore, that the House could go on with the second reading. In the list of Bills hon. Members were supposed to look at, the Merchant Shipping Bill was mentioned as not delivered. But even if it had been delivered that morning, hon. Members could not have had an opportunity of examining its provisions. It was a Bill which undoubtedly affected very important interests, and, under the circumstances, he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would consent to adjourn the debate.
§ MR. CHAMBERLAINI can assure the right hon. Gentleman and the House that I have no desire to press the Bill forward with undue haste, and the moment the House asked for more time I was prepared at once to fall in with that expression of opinion. If my hon. Friend (Mr. T. E. Smith) will withdraw the Amendment, I will withdraw the Motion and postpone the Bill. With regard to the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman opposite, I may say that I had made inquiry at the Vote Office, and I was assured in the most positive terms that the Bill was delivered this morning. [Mr. MONK: Hear, hear!] I gather from the cheer of my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Mr. Monk) that he has received a copy. I have only made these remarks, because I do not wish it to be understood that I had moved the second reading of a Bill which had not been delivered.
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSThe right hon. Gentleman will do me the justice to suppose that I had ample justification for the statement I made.
§ MR. DILLWYNremarked, that he had received a copy of the Bill that morning.
§ MR. HEALYprotested against the way in which the Bill had been brought forward. It was introduced and read a first time by a very curious kind of subterranean legislation. About 3 o'clock in the morning the right hon. Gentleman got up—a few seconds before the House adjourned—and whispered something to the Clerk which nobody could hear. Then somebody said, "Merchant Shipping Bill—second reading, Monday;" and that was all anybody knew about it. He objected to 2 o'clock in the morning legislation; and, in order to prevent a recurrence of what had just happened, he should put down a blocking Notice against the Bill. He trusted that what had taken place would be a warning to the Government not to attempt legislation in whispers.
§ MR. T. E. SMITHsaid, that, after the statement of the right hon. Gentleman, he would, with the leave of the House, withdraw the Amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Second Reading deferred till Thursday.