MR. MAC IVER,rising to a point of Order, said, he wished to ask Mr. Speaker, whether the hon. Member for Oldham (Mr. Lyulph Stanley) was entitled to threaten him in the Lobby of the House?
§ MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is appealing to me on a point of Order with reference to a matter which has occurred in the Lobby. I am bound to say I must decline to give an opinion upon occurrences in the Lobby.
MR. MAC IVERThe hon. Member for Oldham stated that you, Sir, had made a communication to him in reference to a Petition which I presented. I am bound to ask you, whether you did make such a communication to the hon. Member? ["Order!"and"Chair!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member, in speaking to a point of Order, has asked me whether I made a communication to the hon. Member for Oldham. I am not aware of that communication; but I must tell him that he should not appeal to the Chair on a point of Order of that kind.
§ MR. MACIVER (who rose amid cries of "Order!")said, that he was sorry for the interruption, but to put himself in Order he would conclude with a Motion. The facts were these. The hon. Member for Oldham had, in the Lobby, accused him of having gone much beyond the terms of the Petition which he had presented, and said he had been consulting Mr. Speaker on the subject, and was advised to bring his (Mr. Mac Iver's) conduct before the House. He (Mr. Mac Iver), having a perfectly good defence, wished the hon. Member to do so—if it was true that he had been so advised; but on saying this to the hon. Member, that Gentleman declined to proceed. He was aware that he did use language which was out of Order; but he stated nothing whatever beyond what the Petitioners wished him to say, and he left much unsaid that they desired him to say. He simply wished now to ask Mr. Speaker whether the hon. Member for Oldham had had any conversation with him on the subject; whether he had told the hon. Member that the matter was one which he ought, if he felt aggrieved, to bring before the House publicly? The hon. Member had not done that, but threatened him with a communication from Mr. Speaker, the existence of which he (Mr. Mac Iver) had ventured to doubt, and had, in one of the Lobbies, charged him, in the first place, with having gone beyond the Prayer of the Petition, and, in the second, with obstructing the Business of the, House. That was a charge which could not be reasonably brought against him.
§ MR. SPEAKERI must put it to the hon. Member that he is now abusing the Privileges of the Motion for the Adjournment of the House. If he moves the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of asking me whether the hon. Member for Oldham had a certain conversation with me, he is committing a gross abuse of Privilege.
MR. MAC IVER,rising amid cries of "Name him" said, he had not the slightest wish to trespass further upon the House. He had only mentioned the matter, because he thought the conduct of the hon. Member for Oldham most improper and unbecoming.
MR. LYULPH STANLEYPerhaps I may be allowed to make a personal explanation. The House is probably aware that the hon. Member for Birken- 52 head (Mr. Mac Iver), in presenting a Petition, was somewhat discursive in his remarks. Several hon. Members on this side of the House rose to Order; but, on receiving an assurance from the hon. Member that he was only repeating the Prayer of the Petition, he was allowed to proceed. I, afterwards, ascertaining that the hon. Member had travelled beyond the Prayer of the Petition, consulted the hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Dillwyn), who is one of the most experienced Members of the House after yourself, Sir, whether the matter was one to which the attention of the House should be drawn. On the whole, we have come to the conclusion that we had better not waste the time of the House when there was so much more important Business before it; but, having consulted with the hon. Member for Swansea in this matter, and meeting the hon. Member for Birkenhead in the Lobby, I thought it more candid to tell him what I had done. I told him, that though. I would not waste the time of the House by drawing attention to an assurance which enabled him to be out of Order, and thereby take advantage of the House, that if such a thing occurred again I should call the attention of the House to it. That is the substance of what passed.
MR. MAC IVEROne word. The hon. Member spoke of a communication from you, Sir, and said he wanted to——["Order, order"]
§ MR. SPEAKERThe Clerk will now proceed to read the Orders of the Day.