HC Deb 04 August 1881 vol 264 cc860-1

COLONEL COLTHURST, who had a Notice on the Paper to call attention To the necessity that exists for retaining a certain proportion of soldiers serving for pension exclusive of non-commissioned officers, said, he would not delay the time of the House by discussing the question; but, believing that men of that character would give increased strength to the British Army, he would ask the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War whether soldiers who had a moral, if not a legal, claim to re-engage, provided their characters and physique were satisfactory, would be allowed to do so? To make short service effective it was necessary to have a considerable leaven of old soldiers.

SIR HENRY FLETCHER

said, he approved the proposal of the hon. and gallant Gentleman opposite. It was absolutely necessary for the maintenance of discipline that there should be a certain proportion of old soldiers in a regiment.

MR. CHILDERS

said, that the soldier—other than the non-commissioned officer—had no right or expectation to be re-engaged; but he had stated that it had been determined to allow commanding officers to make recommendations of individual soldiers enlisted under the former rules for re-engagement, and each case would be considered on its merits. But, as a general rule, if a man was not fit to be a non-commissioned officer within the first 12 years of his service, he would not be likely to give fair value for his money during the succeeding nine years. Part of the attraction of the new system was that after a non-commissioned officer had served 14 or 15 years, it was very likely that he would get on to the permanent staff of the Militia or the Volunteers. Again, by an arrangement between the War Department and the Government of India a certain proportion of short service men would be allowed to extend their period of service with the Colours from 8 to 10 or even 12 years. As to the influence of old soldiers, he doubted very much whether the influence of the re-engaged private was good; and, on the whole, he thought it better not to establish any general principle as to re-engagement.

SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT

said, he was glad to hear the statement of the right hon. Gentleman, because he was satisfied that young soldiers in India were not capable of performing the work required from them.

COLONEL NORTH

said, that in 1870 Mr. Cardwell spoke of "the importance of retaining in the Army that most valuable member, the old soldier," and that the late Duke of Wellington said the old soldier was the life and soul of the whole Army. But at present no veterans were to be found in the Army, He was ready to give every credit to the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War for his desire to promote the efficiency of the Army; but he thought the greatest mistake the right hon. Gentleman made was to interfere with the regimental system of our Army. The recent changes had given great dissatisfaction to the Service, especially the changing of the names of the regiments. There was also very great dissatisfaction at regiments losing their numbers.

Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Members being found present,