PUBLIC WORKS LOANS [ADVANCES, &c.]. (Hansard, 24 July 1879)

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
When, yesterday, I brought forward the second reading of this Bill, it was found necessary that the Order of the Day should be discharged, and a new Bill brought in. I explained that a Bill would have to be passed for the raising of such money as would be required for loans that would have to be made in the course of the year. The monies at the disposal of the Government are now nearly exhausted, and are not sufficient, I believe, to last out the present week; so that, probably, those who apply for loans may have to wait a little time before they get their money. It, therefore, becomes necessary to pass a Bill for the raising of a certain sum for this purpose. I propose to ask for very much the same sums as last year—that is to say, £6,000,000 for England and £860,000, or a little more than last year, for Ireland. I propose, also, to re-insert the great bulk of the clauses that were in the Bill which has been for some time upon the Table of the House; but it is intended to make a slight alteration in the clauses relating to interest, which in the Bill already laid upon the Table of the House stood at 3¾ per cent as the lowest rate to be charged. I now propose that the rate of interest for loans advanced for a less period than 20 years shall be 3½ per cent. I shall feel it necessary to proceed with the Bill as rapidly as the other Business will permit; and I may mention to the Committee that I feel myself absolved from the promise which I gave some time ago to the hon. Member for Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain), and others, that the Bill should be brought forward as a first Order of the Day, inasmuch as 1274 that promise was made on the understanding that the Bill would be discussed on its merits. Bearing in mind that understanding, I several times waived bringing forward the Bill at a time when I might have done so; but, yesterday, when the Bill was brought forward, the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Rylands), instead of discussing it upon its merits, took a technical objection to it, and thereby delayed the proceedings.

§ MR. CHILDERS
did not agree that the Government had produced any justification for breaking their promise with regard to making this Bill a first Order of the Day. However, that was a matter which rested rather with the hon. Member for Birmingham than with, him. The Chancellor of the Exchequer asked the House to authorize advances to the extent of £6,850,000. Now, in the Bill which would have to be considered in connection with the Resolution, a change was proposed which would place local loans to a great extent on the footing of that made to the Irish Church Commission—that was to say, the amounts required, instead of being borrowed on Exchequer Bonds, would be provided from the Saving's Bank balances. He wished, therefore, to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to what extent he would use this power, and how much he would borrow in the former manner in the course of the year to meet these loans?

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
I cannot now say how much I shall borrow; but I will endeavour to do so before the Bill passes.

§ MR. DILLWYN
said, a most valid objection had been taken to the Public Works Loans Bill by the hon. Member for Burnley, in consequence of which it had been discharged. The Bill came up in one shape last February, and when the second reading was moved on Wednesday it was shown to have been substantially altered. He could not think the valid objection raised to the second reading of the Bill absolved the Chancellor of the Exchequer from the promise made to his hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham at the beginning of the Session.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
inquired if the provisions of Clause 4, Section 11, were directed against certain annuities, or was a sweeping measure against paying 1275 off loans by means of annuities. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer intend to bring in a clause to that effect?

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
It is, of course, very convenient for borrowers to repay a loan by means of an annuity; but if the loan is spread over a long period it is not by any means so convenient to the lenders. The objection to that mode of repayment is that the generation which profits by the work for which the money is advanced bears but a slight portion of the expense. For short terms, I see no objection to the loans being paid off by annuities; but to loans for long terms being discharged in this way I see considerable objections. At the present moment, I cannot go more fully into this point, which will present itself more conveniently on the general discussion of the Bill.

§ MAJOR NOLAN
said, that the point was a most important one, and he hoped the Irish Members would oppose the Bill in every possible way, as he intended to do, if it were to be the will that no loans were to be paid off by annuities. The provision would affect the properties of all the tenants in Ireland, and would stop many useful works there.

(1.) Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise further Advances out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom, or out of moneys in the hands of the National Debt Commissioners held on account of Savings Banks, or Post Office Savings Banks, of any sum or sums of money not exceeding £6,000,000 in the whole, to enable the Public Works Loan Commissioners, and not exceeding £850,000 in the whole, to enable the Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland to make Advances in promotion of Public Works.

(2.) Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Public Works Loans Acts.