SUPPLY—considered in Committee. (Hansard, 27 May 1878)

§ COLONEL STANLEY
said, that after the lengthened debate that had already taken place upon the subject of these Indian troops, in which the general opinion of the House had been equally pronounced upon both sides, it would not be for the public advantage, or for the convenience of the Committee, that he should enter into the question of the policy that had led to the despatch of those troops. That was, no doubt, an important question, and the Government would be perfectly ready to meet it when the proper time arrived for its discussion. If he were to enter into that question then, it would probably raise a debate which might be prejudicial to the negotiations now pending; and, therefore, he should confine his remarks to a brief explanation of the Estimate he had to submit. The despatch of the Native Indian troops, as the Committee were aware, was decided upon by the Government upon the 27th of March last. On the 12th of April following a commission was given to the Indian Government to make arrangements for the embarkation of the troops; and owing to the fear which was entertained by the Indian Government of the probability of bad weather, and with a view of avoiding the monsoon, the departure of the troops was hastened as much as possible. The general question as to the employment of Native Indian troops out of India had been discussed that evening in another form, and the Committee, to the appointment of which the Government had assented, would examine into that question, and when it had reported the matter could be discussed much more conveniently than it could be now, and he should therefore not touch upon it. The troops sent to Malta consisted of six regiments of Native Infantry, four companies of Native Sappers and Miners, two regiments of Native Cavalry, and two Field Batteries of the Royal Artillery. The Estimate he now presented to the Committee was, of course, only an approximate 803 one. They asked for a Vote of not exceeding 7,000 men, although, the number would not actually much exceed 6,000 men. The large proportion of these charges were of a nature that would arise whether the time the troops remained out of India was long or short, and it had been thought right by the Government to take the pay up to the 31st March next, that being the end of the present financial year. The Force consisted of 112 British officers, 122 Native officers, 6,040 men, 1,500 followers, and 1,373 horses. The principal items connected with the pay and allowances of the troops, which they had taken, in round numbers, at £180,000, were—provisions, about £40,000; forage, £55,000; miscellaneous supplies, £30,000; and for general purposes connected with the movement, £50,000, bringing the total up to £350,000. He was obliged to guard himself by saying that he did not know the actual details of the expenditure which would be caused by camp arrangements in connection with the troops and camp followers; but he had no reason to apprehend that the sum he had mentioned would be exceeded. It was proposed to camp the Infantry regiments at the glacis on the fort, the Cavalry and Artillery would be camped on the road leading to St. Antonio and Aquila, and from the accounts he had received he understood that all the sanitary arrangements would be satisfactorily concluded before the troops had arrived at their destination. He did not know that at that late hour the Committee would wish him to go into further detail. He trusted that on the understanding that the whole question of the policy of the Government might be hereafter discussed the Committee would agree to the Vote to which he had alluded, and which he now placed in the Chairman's hands.

§ MR. DILLWYN
did not intend to discuss the general policy of this Vote, and he did not wish to see the opposition to it carried any further; but he should like to know whether in this Vote the ordinary method would be followed of first voting the men and then the money? He had not clearly understood the statement of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, as there had been so much confusion while he was speaking. If the usual course were not taken, he should like to hear what was 804 the reason for such a departure from the ordinary rule.

§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL
said, that he had upon a previous occasion taken the opportunity to express his opinion on the policy of this step, and he had not altered his opinion that the measure was not justified.

THE CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member is not in Order in dealing with the general question, but must confine his remarks to this Vote.

§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL
would confine himself to the Vote. He was not adverse to the experiment of employing Native Indian troops; but his objection to this Vote was, that the occasion was inopportune, that the number of troops brought to Malta was just enough to irritate the Russians and cause suspicion among the other European Powers, and not enough to be of much practical use. The Estimate before the Committee bore out his opinion, that those troops would cost a great deal more than European troops. Having said that, he should not vote against the grant, because they had already taken the money from the Indian Treasury, and he was anxious to repay that money as soon as possible. He differed from the noble Lord who so ably led Her Majesty's Opposition, and did not think it would be well to postpone this matter. The Government had now put this measure before Parliament, and were asking for a Vote for 7,000 men. As to that, it was "better late than never," and a salve to their consciences might now perhaps be found in the ex post facto assent of Parliament to the moving of those Indian troops. In pursuance with his view, he hoped the House, now that the step had been taken, would make the best of it. It was an interesting and important experiment, which, he hoped, would be made the most of. He suggested that some of those troops should be brought into this country, and he did not see why "Probyn's Horse" should not be employed as sentries at the Horse Guards. Such a step would, at least, afford great satisfaction to the juvenile population of London, and then the Horse Guards might be sent to India, where, no doubt, they would do good service.

§ MR. DILLWYN,
since he spoke last, saw that the men and money were to be 805 taken together in one lump. That was unconstitutional, or, at least, exceptional. It was desirable that the House should legalize the moving of those troops as far as possible; and, therefore, he should prefer to have the men and money voted separately. He certainly expected to have some further explanation.

§ MR. C. S. PARKER
said, if the hon. Member wanted a precedent, he ought not to look at the general Estimate, but any Naval or Military Supplementary Estimates.

§ COLONEL STANLEY
said, it had all along been intended that the number of men should be stated to the Committee, and the Vote had been put in the most convenient form for that purpose, and, he believed, according to precedent.