HC Deb 30 March 1876 vol 228 cc912-4

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses 91 to 105, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 106.

MR. P. A. TAYLOR moved an Amendment making it compulsory upon the Secretary for War to deduct from the pay of soldiers a certain proportion for the maintenance of their illegitimate children. As the clause stood it was only permissive.

Amendment proposed, In page 63, line 30, to leave out the word "may," in order to insert the word "shall,"—(Mr. P. A. Taylor,) —instead thereof.

MR. CAVENDISH BENTINCK

contended that the principle adopted was an advantage to the soldier. It was within the power of the Secretary of State to withhold a portion of a soldier's pay, and if he failed to do what was right he was responsible to Parliament, and it was open to any hon. Member to challenge his decision. It was only right and proper that this discretionary power should be vested in the Secretary of State, and he (Mr. Bentinck) asked the Committee to do that which they had already done twice before, and reject the Amendment.

COLONEL ALEXANDER

opposed the Amendment. If a man declined to support his wife and children he was brought before his commanding officer; and if he refused to contribute to their maintenance an appeal to the Secretary of State was threatened, and in eight cases out of ten that threat was effectual.

Question put, "That the word 'may' stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided:—Ayes 199; Noes 82: Majority 117.

MR. P. A. TAYLOR

then moved to leave out the remainder of the clause after the word "decree," as he found the provision introduced by Lord Cardwell to make the soldier contribute to the support of his wife and children when they entered the workhouse nugatory, inasmuch as from a Return which he had obtained it appeared that in 1874 there were in the workhouses of the country 629 women the wives of soldiers, and 1,241 young persons who were their children, while the sum paid by the soldiers for their support was only £58 11s.

Amendment proposed, In page 63, line 35, to leave out all the words after the word "decree," to the end of the Clause.—(Mr. P. A. Taylor.)

MR. CAVENDISH BENTINCK

opposed the Amendment, as it became necessary, when they subjected the soldier to a liability from which he had been before exempt, to protect him from fictitious charges. Under the present system no complaint had been lodged at the War Office, and he asked the Committee to reject the Amendment.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided:—Ayes 195; Noes 80: Majority 115.

MR. DODDS

said, he intended to propose an Amendment; but at that late hour he should move to report Progress.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY

said, it was unusual to move an Amendment after two failures. He defended the necessity for the retention of the clause.

Sir HENRY HAVELOCK

said, the clause was a wholesome, right, and just one. There had not been a single case of injustice or grievance brought forward against the operation of the clause.

Mr. DODSON

said, he hoped that, under the circumstances, two divisions having taken place favourable to the clause, the Motion to report Progress would be withdrawn. Another Amendment to the clause could not now be put.

MR. DODDS

withdrew his Motion, intimating that he hoped the clause would be re-considered by the Government before next year and amended.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 107.

Sir ALEXANDER GORDON moved, in page 64, line 26, after "reserve," to leave out "or of the posting of a letter addressed to him at such place," the effect of which would be that if a man did not receive a letter, and belonged to the Reserved Force, he was liable to be tried by a court martial.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY

said, it was not extended to the present Reserve Forces, and there was therefore no necessity for this Amendment. He would, however, leave out the word "posting," and insert "delivery," which would meet the proposed difficulty.

Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

Clause agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered To-morrow.