HC Deb 05 March 1875 vol 222 cc1349-59

(In the Committee.)

(1.) £98,620 (Supplementary 1874–5) on account of the Arctic Expedition.

MR. HUNT

said, it was his duty to ask the sanction of the Committee to an Estimate that would be laid upon the Table for the purpose of equipping and fitting out the Arctic Expedition which would be sent out in May. The sum asked for was £98,620. The great burden of the expenditure would fall upon the current year; but, as would be seen from a Note appended to the Estimate, a further expense of £16,000 would be likely to be incurred in the course of the next financial year, and in the other years during which the Expedition was away, an annual sum of £13,000 would be required. It was right, he should say, that there was a contingent possibility that the additional sum of £50,000 might be required in case it became necessary or desirable to send out a relief ship through the Expedition not returning as soon as was anticipated. The inception of this Expenditure was due solely to the Learned Societies of the United Kingdom—the Geographical and the Royal Societies and the British Association for the advancement of Science—which had urged upon the present, as they had upon the late Government the desirability of fitting out such an expedition for the purposes of science. In the Memorandum which they furnished to the Government on the subject, they pointed out the scientific importance of exploring the large area of the Arctic regions, and the number and extent of the discoveries that must result from such an expedition. The Papers on the subject had been laid before the House, and he regretted that in consequence of the delay occasioned by the preparation of a chart which was not yet ready, the documents had not been placed in the hands of hon. Members at an earlier date. The chart would follow in due course. When he spoke of the Learned Societies, he wished it to be understood that they comprehended all the most eminent names in the scientific world in the United Kingdom. The question was, whether the results which it was anticipated would be obtained from sending out this Expedition would be worth the risk that would have to be incurred by those who went out in the Expedition; and no doubt the fate of, he believed, the last scientific expedition that had been sent out under Sir John Franklin had for many years damped the ardour of the people of this country for sending out these Expeditions. He thought, however, they were in a better position now to attempt such explorations than before. No less than 14 Expeditions had been sent out between the years 1848 and 1861—some under the direction of the Government, some by private subscription, but their object was to ascertain the fate of Sir John Franklin, not for the special purpose of scientific discovery, although in the course of their voyages and sledge journeys large additions to scientific knowledge were made. The question then arose, should the fate of Sir John Franklin and his companions stand in the way of another Expedition for scientific purposes. On that subject, the Arctic Exploration Committee of the Geographical Society had expressed the opinion that the want of proper depôts for provisions to cover the escape of the explorers had led to the disaster which had occurred, and that if proper measures of precaution in that respect were taken, they looked forward to the success of the present Expedition. That opinion clearly laid it down that there was no greater risk to be experienced in an Arctic expedition than attended the voyage of H. M. Ship Challenger. All subsequent Expeditions to that of Sir John Franklin, during a period of 30 years, had always returned in safety, their death-rate having been less than that of seamen engaged in any other service. They pointed further to the advantages to be derived from the introduction of steam power and improved victualling and navigation, and to the fact that Arctic service was most popular in the Navy. He had already stated that since the return of the Expedition to investigate the fate of Sir John Franklin and his comrades this country had retired from the field of Arctic exploration, but the calamity which had deterred this country had not had a like effect upon other countries. Germany had sent out an Expedition in 1869–70; Sweden one or more Expeditions in 1872; and Austria one in the same year, all of which Expeditions had had more or less success in the investigation of the problem which had long puzzled Arctic explorers. The German Expedition, pursuing its exploration by the East Coast of Greenland, reached a latitude of 77 degrees; Sweden, proceeding from Spitzbergen, reached a latitude of 80 degrees; and Austria, going by way of Nova Zembla, reached a latitude of 82 degrees: the explorers observing, though they did not reach, land at a latitude of 83 degrees. Singular to say, however, not with standing those successes of the Expeditions of different countries, no Arctic navigator had reached so high a latitude as that which Parry gained in 1827. He did not quite reach the 83rd degree, but fell very little short of it, and though land had been seen further North than any he actually visited, no European traveller had ever set foot upon so high a latitude as he. The question, then, was, if other nations had not been deterred by the fate of Sir John Franklin and his followers from pursuing those investigations, was it for this country to give up the research. He had mentioned Expeditions from other European countries, but he should add that it was in consequence of the results attending an Expedition sent out by the "United States of America that they had been encouraged to send out the proposed Expedition. The Polaris proceeding by the route proposed to be now taken—by Baffin's Bay—reached 82 16 N. lat., without obstruction. In view of these facts, a consideration of the scientific results to be attained, and the small risks to be run by those who had the conduct and formed part of the Expedition, induced the Government to decide upon sending out another. When that resolution had been arrived at, steps were taken to secure as far as possible the safety and success of the Expedition, and he would like to inform the Committee of their nature. A Committee of most experienced Arctic voyagers was called upon—Admiral Richards, the Hydrographer to the Admiralty, Sir Leopold M'Clintock, well-known as having solved the fate of Sir John Franklin, and Admiral Sherard Osborn. Those officers, with the greatest alacrity, assembled at the bidding of the Admiralty, and gave them the benefit of their experience and advice as to the means which should be adopted as far as possible to ensure a successful result; and in their Report, which would be found in the Papers before the House, most valuable suggestions were made for the guidance of the Expedition. The points put before that Committee were these. "What should be the scope of the Expedition, what should be the order for carrying them into effect, what description of ship ought to be employed, and what were likely to be the most suitable winter quarters? With respect to the first point, the Committee decided that the scope and primary object was to attain the highest northern latitude possible—the North Pole, and the limits of navigation were to lie between 20 and 90 degrees of west longitude. The most material point before the Committee was what route should be taken. That had long been a vexed question amongst navigators and persons who had given their attention to the subject; but as was pointed out by the Report of the Hydrographer, experience had rather narrowed the grounds of dispute, because the Expeditions sent out from foreign countries, although they had met with a certain amount of success, and had been able to lay down the boundaries of lands which had not hitherto appeared in any chart, yet had shown that from the different points from which they endeavoured to reach the Pole complete suc- cess did not seem likely to be ensured. Therefore, by a process of exhaustion, persons of Arctic experience had almost unanimously agreed that the route by Baffin's Bay and Smith's Sound was the one which offered the greatest prospect of success. He had mentioned already that the voyage of the Polaris, the American ship, by that route was very encouraging for the Expedition which they now proposed to start. They endeavoured to obtain ships that were best suited for the purpose in view. One of Her Majesty's Ships, the Alert, had been pronounced by the Committee to be in all respects fit for the service, and she had been thoroughly overhauled, and was being prepared under the personal supervision of Sir Leopold M'Clintock at Portsmouth. They had purchased a sealing ship called the Bloodhound, but having already a ship of the same name in the Navy, her name would be changed to the Discovery, and she was also being prepared for the Expedition under the same direction at Portsmouth. It was proposed that these vessels should sail in concert—the Alert to be the forward ship, and the Discovery ultimately to be left about 200 miles behind, not proceeding beyond 82 deg. N. lat.—to act as a depôt and rescue-ship, in ease the Alert should have to be abandoned. Should the Expedition not return as early as was expected—namely, in 1877—a third ship would be sent to their assistance, in order to supply provisions and bring homo the ships' crews, if it had been found necessary to abandon one or both ships. He could assure the Committee that every pains had been taken to equip those ships in the best possible manner, and to provide all that was necessary in the way of special clothing and provisions. He had, with pleasure, to recognize on that occasion the kindly feeling and favour with which the Expedition had been received by those foreign Governments which had been communicated with on the subject. The Danish Government, which had Settlements on the coast of Greenland, had most warmly entered into the enterprise, and had promised to procure sledge drivers and dogs for the Expedition when it should reach their shore. The Government of the United States had offered Her Majesty's Government the stores left by the Polaris at different points, in order to supplement the arrangements already made. This Ex- pedition, therefore, he might say, would start with the hearty goodwill of those foreign Governments which were able to render us any service. Having now explained the objects to be attained, and the risks of the Expedition, he would only add that it was no doubt possible that its main object, which was the discovery of the veritable Pole, might not be attained. A great deal would depend upon the season, because, in some years, the water was more open than in others. Of course, in addition to the chance—if there was such a thing as chance—of the severity of the season, there was that unknown quantity of the nature of the land and water around the Polo, and whether it was open water or frozen water. He would not pretend that there was no risk or peril for the gallant officers and men who were to be sent out on this peculiar enterprise, but the benefit was great in comparison with the risks which were likely to be encountered. The men of the naval service of this country were not likely to shrink from perils at the call of their Queen and country, and that was especially true of those who had penetrated the Arctic regions. Those who were now about to engage in that Expedition were not a whit inferior to those who had gone before them, and were men who had not been accustomed to shrink from any perils to which duty might call them. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by moving the Vote.

MR. E. J. REED

said, he entirely approved of a further Arctic Expedition, and therefore did not rise to oppose the Vote. He wished, however, to observe that if the Expedition had not been sent quite so soon, they might have looked for more favourable consequences than they could now do. He thought a British Arctic Expedition, on which £100,000 was to be expended, might have been made the nucleus of several simultaneous expeditions, which could have made observations at different points, and he contended that they would have contributed much to the advancement of Arctic science. He wished to explain that neither the German nor the Austrian Expeditions had any intention whatever of attacking the Pole, or seeking to go there. The German Expedition was sent to explore the neglected East Coast of Greenland, and the Austrian to explore the unknown seas to the north of Siberia. It therefore followed that it had not been the endeavour of the scientific men of Germany and Austria to do that which we were going to do—namely, to discover the veritable Pole itself, whatever that Pole might prove to be. Our Expedition was starting at a time when other nations were prepared to spend money for the same object, and when he put his Question the other night to the Prime Minister, he was only anxious to suggest that, having been made acquainted of late years with the progress in meteorology and magnetic and astronomical science, and that they were advanced chiefly by simultaneous observations, it would be very desirable, for the purpose of bringing about scientific results, that we should have several expeditions organized to make simultaneous observations at different points. Notwithstanding that this Expedition was about to start this year, and the German Expedition was not to start until next year, there was ample time and opportunity for coming to some understanding with regard to that Expedition for at any rate simultaneous observation. He trusted the First Lord would take the subject into his consideration. The necessity of simultaneous observations being made by different countries had been strongly urged upon him by the Commander of the Austrian Polar Expedition, whom he had met at Trieste, and there was a great disposition among scientific men in all countries to recognize the value of these simultaneous observations. The First Lord of the Admiralty had acted wisely in availing himself of the very best advice; and, therefore, while otherwise he should have been disposed to question the fitness of the Alert, he would not do so now. He hoped the Vote would be passed without opposition, and that the remarks he had offered would be received in the spirit in which they were made. He had no idea of checking the enthusiasm with which the proposal had been met, for he believed that such Expeditions, publicly organized for scientific objects, reflected credit upon the ago.

MR. COLLINS

said, he had great experience of very cold climates, and he would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty to send out with the Expedition, at whatever cost, a largo quantity of reindeers' skins to be used as overclothing by the men. He had himself travelled through the North of Finland, and was well provided with a quantity of fur; but after some days he found it useless, and was obliged to give it up in consequence of being very unwell. He then got reindeer skins, and immediately recovered his health perfectly. The dresses should be made so as to cover the head and the hands, and the overcoat should come down the legs. The Expedition should also be supplied with an abundance of sledges and dog harness. A supply of feather pillows, and reindeer skins upon which the men could recline and cover themselves, and of boots and shoes to be worn over others would be found to be very acceptable.

MR. ANDERSON

said, that the First Lord of the Admiralty had omitted to tell the House when the Expedition was to sail. [Mr. HUNT: In May.] His reason for referring to the date was, that the experience of the Dundee navigators, who were the men best acquainted with the Polar Seas, was that it would be too late for the Expedition to sail in June, as was originally proposed, and that it would be necessary for it to sail in April, in order that it might get well up Smith's Sound before the season got too far advanced. It might be impossible now to send off the Expedition any earlier than was intended; but he thought it right to mention the circumstance, as it was most desirable that the Expedition having been undertaken, should be attended with success. It was highly creditable to the Government that they had undertaken it, for it was high time, when other nations were going so far a-head in Arctic discovery, that we should do something to keep up our old reputation.

MR. YEAMAN said

, speaking from 17 or 18 years' connection with Arctic traders and trading, he could corroborate what the hon. Member for Glasgow had said as to Smith's Sound. He had little fear as to the success of the Expedition, and did not think it would be attended with much danger. During the long time he had been connected with Polar trading, he had scarcely ever lost a man. There had certainly been some ships lost; but, thanks to the proximity of the ice, there was hardly ever a man lost. "We had great facilities and advantages over what were pos- sessed by the Expeditions which were sent in search of Sir John Franklin, and there was no doubt that the Expedition now being sent out would, in a couple of seasons, discover whether the Pole was to be reached by way of Smith's Sound or not. He had every confidence in the Government and the First Lord of the Admiralty doing everything in such a manner as would do credit to the country, and there was little doubt but this great maritime nation would be the first to discover whether the Pole could be reached by that route or not. He suggested that with the view of obviating the necessity of either of the steamers having to return for coals, a sailing ship should be sent to Melville Bay with 400 or 500 tons of coal.

MR. GOSCHEN

wished to say, on behalf of the late Government, that they wished the Expedition every possible success, and that they should not grudge the present Administration the credit which they would deserve from having organized it and proposed the Vote to the House of Commons. The late Government, while in office, organized the Expedition of the Challenger in the cause of science. They thought that was a most important operation. The deep sea exploration was a matter which interested not only the public, but to a far greater extent the scientific world, and they did not hesitate to come to Parliament and ask for the necessary expenditure to carry it out. They thought that while that Expedition was on their hands, there was no great hurry for organizing this Polar Expedition, and they reserved it for another year. However that might be, they trusted that the results of the present Expedition might be as successful as they believe those of the Challenger to have been, and that the Government might have reason to congratulate themselves upon it.

MR. A. EGERTON

said, he thought that the Government and the Admiralty might fairly congratulate themselves on the reception the project had met with. He could assure the hon. Member for Pembroke (Mr. E. J. Reed) that the Admiralty did not undervalue simultaneous observations, when they could be carried out with other Governments; but it was feared that too much time would be lost in making their arrange- ments; and, after all, the importance of simultaneous observations was not so great in this Expedition as in that having reference to the Transit of Venus. Besides, the Government would have the advantage of comparing the observations made for them upon scientific matters with those made for other Governments at a future time. The Government would desire to give their results to other Governments and to obtain the results of other Governments. If the hon. Member for Kinsale (Mr. Collins) would be pleased to call at the Admiralty and make suggestions to the Arctic Committee he would be received with courtesy, and his observations would be listened to with attention. He might state that the matter of sledges, and boots, and other things had been carefully considered, and he could assure the House and the public that every care would be taken in regard to the wants of the men; but they would be ready to receive any suggestions. He would just add that the expediency of sending out a ship with a supply of coals had also not been lost sight of, it being contemplated by the Admiralty to send out this year or next a small store ship, with the object to which the hon. Member for Dundee (Mr. Yeaman) had called attention.

Vote agreed to.

(2.) £3,000 (Supplementary 1874–5), Steam Machinery, &c, Breaking-up Ships.

(3.) £9,000 (Supplementary 1874–5), Navy, Miscellaneous Services.

(4.) £240,299 1s. 5d. (Supplementary 1873–4), Excess of Naval Expenditure.

MR. ANDERSON

said, it was a very largo sum, and he should like an explanation as to some of the details.

MR. SHAW-LEFEVRE

said, that the details were all explained in the Appropriation Accounts; but as he must share the responsibility of this Excess, he would explain what had been done in regard to it. It was found that some surpluses which were expected from other Votes were not realized. It was also found that an increase of not less than £33,000 was due to a misunderstanding by the commanding officers of several ships abroad of an Admiralty Circular, with reference to the making up accounts at the end of the financial year; which had resulted in throwing upon the year 1873–4 what was properly due to the succeeding year. There was also an unexpected claim of £11,000 sent in from the Bombay Government for stores supplied, and another unexpected claim of £3,000 from the War Office. The rest of the Vote was made up of outstanding claims for stores, and through the prices of coal and iron not falling in price as the Department expected. Another cause of the Excess in the expenditure was due to concentration of our ships on the Coasts of Spain and Zanzibar in the years 1873 and 1874, where the officers had to be supplied with stores by contract in lieu of drawing them from our depôts. During the three years that he was Financial Secretary at the Admiralty, he had experienced much anxiety with regard to the high price of coal and other stores, and the excess of the last year it was totally impossible to avoid.

Vote agreed to.