§ MR. EYKYN,in rising to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the administration of the Metropolitan Police, of the Borough and County Police in England and Wales, and also the system of superannuation, pay, and pensions, said, the subject was one in which considerable interest was taken by the House and the public generally. For some time the attitude that had been assumed towards the Police was one that excited considerable dissatisfaction, and the period had now arrived when not only the ratepayers, but those who contributed towards the annual expenditure from the Consolidated Fund should come to a distinct understanding as to the best means of giving the highest value to the Force. In the year 1870 he had placed upon the Table of the House a Motion for a Select Committee. Acting upon the best advice he could procure, he withdrew that Motion; but a clear impression was left upon his mind, that such alterations should be made in the Force by the Home Office, as would lead to a better understanding for the future, and extend to the Police more favourable terms. It was not his intention to go into all the causes which had. brought about the state of circumstances which could not but have been impressed upon the minds of hon. Members during last year. In the year 1851 the Police Force was in the highest state of organization it had ever attained before or since. The late Sir Richard Mayne had fulfilled his duty as Chief Commissioner of Police in a way that gave considerable satisfaction. The only regret they had was, that towards the later period of his life his energies had become warped, and he was not able to perform his duties with such ability as in the first instance. Sir Richard Mayne died about the year 1868, and. from that time forth there was one continued course of dissatisfaction with 1734 regard to the Force. He was not saying that in any unfair spirit towards the Home Secretary. In the year 1868 a very influential deputation waited upon the right hon. Gentleman, introduced by Professor Marks. The object of the deputation was to represent to the right hon. Gentleman that a great change was about to take place in the administration of the Police, and to impress upon him the importance of the new appointment. The reply of the right hon. Gentleman to the deputation was, that, in the choice of the gentleman who would succeed Sir Richard Mayne, attention would be directed to the qualifications of the person who was best acquainted with the habits of criminals, who would be able to detect crime, and protect the public peace. Since the appointment of Colonel Henderson to be Chief Commissioner, however, there had been a change in the tone of the Force which was much to be deplored. No doubt that gentleman was a most able, painstaking, and conscientious man; but it sometimes happened that even such men were unfit to discharge responsible duties such as the Chief Commissioner of Police had to undertake. The experience of Colonel Henderson had been chiefly of a military character, and. it was to be feared that the military system was made to override all the civil authorities of the Force. Thus, at the present time, the administrative appointments of the Force were, with two exceptions, held by military men. He admitted that in the management of a Force of 10,000 men it might be necessary to resort to something in the nature of military discipline, but it was quite possible that that military discipline might entirely override all the objects for which the Force had been instituted. The state into which the Police Force had drifted last year and the year before was the cause of much disquietude to the metropolis. So critical had the attitude of the Force become that in answer to a Question addressed to him the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Ripon (Sir Henry Storks) stated, that an application had been made to the Horse Guards to allow the Reserve men of the Army to join the Police, and. that a number of men were thereupon placed at the disposal of the Home Office; but whether these men had been enlisted in the Police he had been unable to discover. The whole 1735 attitude of the Police had been altered, because of the non-fulfilment of the promises that the superannuation allowance would be considered and equitably carried out. Deductions amounting to nearly £100,000 had been made, and since the year 1857 it had entirely disappeared, and the men were naturally dissatisfied, because the promises of superannuation had not been fulfilled. Under the scale of 1862, a man serving 15 years got half-pay, and after 24 years two-thirds pay; but under the altered scale 15 years' service entitled him to 15–50ths of his pay, while service up to 30 years was a title to a totally undefined amount, but after earning a pension by long service he was not allowed to retire unless he proved incompetency from ill-health or worn-out constitution. Those were the matters which had occasioned discontent among the Police Force. They sent petition after petition for an increase of pay, and they were justified in asking for that increase by the increased cost of the commodities of life. Some small concession was made, but so great was the discontent at one time that the men remonstrated in a mass. On entering their meeting, over which he had been asked to preside, he feared they were on the eve of striking and leaving the metropolis without protection; but he exerted all the influence he could, and, like sensible men, they resolved to return to their duty, since which time matters had gone on much as before. But still the question of superannuation was undecided. It was not among the Police of the metropolis alone that there was discontent. The Reports of the Government Inspectors and of the heads of the Scotch Police testified to the anxiety which prevailed to have the superannuation system placed on a more satisfactory footing, and there was hardly a town in England or Scotland from which he had not received communications from the Chiefs of the Police. They urged the consideration of the question by the Government, and assured him that were it settled no cause for discontent would remain. He believed, too, that whereas the physique and intellectual capacity of recruits had of late been below the proper standard, men of a higher class would then join the Force. In what state, he should like to ask the Home Secretary, was the detective Force at the present moment? No 1736 doubt, crime had greatly diminished; but the authorities must not take to themselves all the credit, as much of that result was due to ragged schools and reformatories. Dissatisfaction did not exist among the Police and Police Superintendents alone, but also among the Police magistrates above them. It was a serious matter to have discontent among the Police magistrates of London—the men to whom they looked for keeping London in order. The accounts of the Metropolitan Police were very large, involving an outlay for supplying nearly 10,000 men, and it was necessary that some inquiry should be made into those accounts, and if a Committee were appointed they might be able to eliminate a great deal from the accounts which would go to increase the scale of superannuation. Not being sanguine of any application by an independent Member being fully met, he was prepared to accept small favours from the Treasury bench. There were in England and Scotland 25,000 Police, and £61,000 was annually voted to make up the deficiency in the superannuation fund. Had the matter been properly managed in the first instance, however, there would have been no necessity for seeking relief through a Committee. The fund was mainly supported by fines and deductions from pay. He should prefer the men being paid their hardly-earned wages in full without deductions, for a policeman at the South Kensington Museum told him 18 months ago that, after maintaining his five or six children, he was not likely to taste meat during the ensuing year—a position hardly fair on an officer expected to cope with strong healthy men and to repress rioting. He need hardly refer to the bad feeling that existed amongst the Police at the rate of pay they received before the agitation of last year, and though they must accept with gratitude the addition which the right hon. Gentleman had made to their pay at that time, he hoped to hear from the right hon. Gentleman that there should be a more uniform pay of the police throughout the country. He thought too, that some effort should be made by which the Borough, the County, the Metropolitan, and the City Police might be amalgamated under one system for the entire country. With the facilities which telegraphs and railways provided, he was satisfied that an im- 1737 proved system might be established for the detection and suppression of crime. As an illustration of the bad effects of the want of uniformity now existing, he might state that if the Metropolitan Police had to arrest a criminal in the Borough of Heading, they would not receive the same facilities from the police of that borough as they would from the police of another division in the Metropolis, because the capture of a criminal in their borough would take away from their credit. In that way there was not absolute unanimity between the Borough and the County Police, and they did not work in that accord that they would if they were amalgamated. If such an improved system as he suggested were adopted, he would gladly see a Minister of Police sitting on the Treasury bench, and responsible to that House for duties of which he believed the Home Secretary would be very glad to divest himself, considering the enormous amount of work that was thrown upon his shoulders. He would suggest that that subject should be carefully taken into consideration by the right hon. Gentleman. There had been, as the Home Secretary well knew, great dissatisfaction in the Police, and he was sure that, unless steps were taken in the direction he had suggested, that dissatisfaction, instead of abating, would increase to an extent of which the House was little aware. It was clear to him that, though the Police were recently on the eve of a strike, the local authorities were not aware, nor did he believe the right hon. Gentleman himself was aware, of the danger of the position. If the authorities at Scotland Yard did not know the state of feeling then, how was it to be supposed that they would be any wiser in the future, when dissatisfaction was at work in the Force? It would be remembered that the Police had sent in a demand for an increase of pay, and the result showed how, when pressure was put upon the Department, the latter "caved in." The application was made in September, and a reply was sent from Colonel Henderson, who stated that after carefully considering the application of the constables of the N division, and with every wish to do all in his power for the welfare and comfort of the Metropolitan Police, he did not feel justified in recommending to the Home Secretary an increase of their pay; that it was only recently 1738 their pay had been augmented; that as regards the Police Fund it would be necessary to apply to Parliament before an addition could be made, and that he was not able to see sufficient ground to justify such an application to Parliament. What was the consequence? The extraordinary fact was, that though Colonel Henderson had written that letter, stating that he could not grant an increase of pay until Parliament met, when the men had broken into almost open rebellion, and had held a meeting at the Cannon Street Hotel, Scotland Yard became frightened, and increased the pay within a month of the application, without waiting for the meeting of Parliament. He should like to know under what circumstances, and by what authority, the Chief Commissioner of Police had dared to say to a large body of men, that he could not increase their pay until Parliament met, and then within a month granting their demand? The consequence of that sort of thing was that men ceased to have any confidence in the acts of those placed over them. He regretted that Colonel Henderson had ever written such a letter, and he much more regretted there had ever been any cause given; for, if Colonel Henderson had understood the situation as well as those outside the four walls of Scotland Yard, he would have known that the Police were in such a state of disaffection that London might have been at any moment deserted by them and left in a most dangerous condition. As a sample of the way in which business was conducted at the Home Office, he would refer to the period of the gas strikes, when the metropolis was on the eve of being left in darkness. At that time, the Chairman of the Imperial Gas Company communicated with the right hon. Gentleman, and informed him of the facts, expecting that the reply he should receive would be satisfactory; but the answer sent by Mr. Winterbotham, in the absence from town of the right hon. Gentleman, was that he could not in any way interfere between the company and their men. He must say that letter gave the Gas Companies much anxiety at the time, and he thought they had a right to expect something more than a mere refusal to interfere. He had occupied the time of the House at some length, and he would only say, in conclusion, that he wished a thorough in- 1739 vestigation should be made into the whole of the circumstances which had occurred with regard to the Police during the last five or six years, so as to prevent, as far as possible, a recurrence of the evidences of that disorganization which was very far from being settled yet. The right hon. Gentleman would only be doing justice to those acting under him, if he made a thorough investigation into all the circumstances of this important question, so as to relieve those who had ventured to bring the matter forward from further responsibility in dealing with the case hereafter. He begged to propose the Motion which stood in his name.
§ MR. SPEAKERIt is right that I should inform the hon. Gentleman that, the House having already declared that the words—"That I do now leave the Chair," stand part of the Question, his Amendment cannot now be moved. Therefore, it is only open to him to call the attention of the House to the circumstances he has brought forward.
MR. BRUCEsaid, he had expected that as the subject brought forward by the hon. Gentleman was important as affecting not only a large body of men, but also the preservation of order and the prevention and detection of crime, the House would have presented a very different aspect from its aspect at that moment. The fact, however, of the scanty attendance of hon. Members proved how little importance was attached to the criticisms of the hon. Member. The Motion, as it stood upon the Notice Paper, embraced the condition of the Police in counties and boroughs, as well as in the metropolis; and yet the speech had been confined almost entirely to the state of the Metropolitan Police; and, in the course of it, the hon. Gentleman had repeated a great many of the statements he (Mr. Bruce) had been under the necessity more than once of correcting—statements, he must observe, which were highly coloured and largely inaccurate, and which he must again meet with denial. The hon. Gentleman had stated that the Metropolitan Police were in the highest state of efficiency in 1851; that they had somewhat deteriorated between that time and 1868, when the deterioration became rapid; and that deterioration he attributed entirely to the military character impressed on the Police. When the Police Force was in- 1740 stituted by the late Sir Robert Peel it was placed under the command of a military man, Colonel Rowan, and Sir Richard Mayne, a civilian. On the death of Colonel Rowan, another soldier was associated with Sir Richard Mayne; and on his death, in 1850, Sir Richard Mayne, having very considerable powers of organization and command, was left in sole management of the Force. It became a model Force, and was studied as such by many European Governments. Sir Richard Mayne, however, was, all through, most ably assisted by two Assistant Commissioners. In 1868, Sir Richard Mayne having died, it was quite true a large body of gentlemen did him the honour to wait upon him, 'and urged the necessity of appointing a civilian, in order to get rid of the military character of the Force. He remembered asking those gentlemen in what the military character of the Force consisted, and he found that they had the most extraordinary notions upon the subject. When he asked whether a Police Force in a population of 3,000,000 could be wholly devoid of a military character, they admitted that it could not, and said they only objected to the excess. When he informed them that the greatest amount of drill a policeman ever went through was only 14 days when, often a mere rustic, he first joined the Force; and that afterwards it was but 20 or 25 hours in the course of the year, the deputation expressed astonishment, and, as reasonable men, were obliged to admit that such an amount of drill could not be considered excessive. They also recommended that greater attention should be paid to the prevention of crime, and said that much might be done to increase the value of the Force as a detective body. Well, much of that recommendation had been carried out. The assurance which he gave to the deputation had been read by the hon. Gentleman, and he would ask the House whether he had not strictly redeemed the promises he had made. But here he must say that great and gross injustice had been done to a very valuable public servant. The hon. Gentleman did not question the military talents of Colonel Henderson, and said he knew he had acquired great reputation as a soldier. But if Colonel Henderson had acquired this reputation as a soldier, it was at a very early period of his 1741 life, for after six years he ceased to perform military duties, and from that period he had discharged none but civil duties. What were those civil duties? When Colonel Henderson had been some six years in the service, he and another military man were appointed by Earl Grey to trace the boundaries between Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and that task he performed at great personal risk, his colleague having died from exposure and labour. He was then appointed with another Engineer officer to lay out the line of railway between Halifax and Quebec; and, with infinite labour, he did lay out a line which had since been adopted in every material respect. In fact, Earl Grey was so much struck by his abilities, that when he was founding a new convict settlement in Western Australia, Colonel (then Captain) Henderson was chosen to superintend it. He went out with 250 convicts, and, though no preparation was made beforehand, he carried out the project successfully, and for 13 years remained at the head of the settlement. During that time he was a Member of the Legislative Council, and obtained an amount of civil experience which could only be obtained in such a colony. After 15 years' service he returned, in 1863, to this country. At that time great attention was being paid to the question of prison discipline and penal servitude, and great complaints were made and many unjust aspersions directed against the late Sir Joshua Jebb, as to the working of the system he had superintended. A Royal Commission was sitting when Sir Joshua Jebb died, and the Chairman, Earl Grey, struck with the knowledge Colonel Henderson displayed of prison discipline, recommended him to the Home Secretary as successor to Sir Joshua Jebb. After five years' service in that capacity, during which he introduced many valuable reforms, he was appointed to succeed Sir Richard Mayne. That, however, was not done without the most careful consideration of the qualifications of all the applicants, civilians and others. It was Colonel Henderson's successful career that recommended him for the post of Chief Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. Now, let the House consider what the consequences might have been if he had overlooked the claims of Colonel Henderson, and 1742 appointed a mere civilian to the post. What proof could a civilian give of fitness to command a Force of 10,000 men? What opportunities could a civilian have of qualifying himself for such a position? There might, no doubt, be men with faculties for command lying unsuspected, like those of Oliver Cromwell, but how was he to discover them? It would have been a most flagrant violation of duty to appoint to the office some one who had not given proof of his ability to conduct such a department. The hon. Gentleman said that Colonel Henderson had imparted a military character to the Force to a degree unknown to Sir Richard Mayne. The hon. Gentleman, in his speech at a meeting of the Metropolitan Police, in October, 1872, said—
First, it is clear to me that the Police never was and never ought to be considered as a military power in this country. I repeat it again—it is a very serious matter when any transformation from a purely civil into a semi-military Force is attempted in this country. The difficulty that will naturally arise if this course is pursued is, that you in troublous times might be called upon to perform duties which belong to the military power behind you. It is not for you to assume the tone which belongs to that profession who are paid so to protect us. Yet the whole atmosphere which surrounds the police is one of a dragooning nature.Well, one might perhaps, conceive an atmosphere created by artillery, but an atmosphere of "a dragooning nature" was something new to him. But where was the proof? The hon. Gentleman could not produce any, and was it just, right, or fair, when statements of this sort had been publicly contradicted by the responsible Minister, to go on and repeat them as the hon. Gentleman had done? What wore the facts? What had been the principal changes made by Colonel Henderson? He had added nothing to the amount of drill through which the men went at the time Sir Richard Mayne was Chief Commissioner; but, while he had not altered the military aspect of the Force, he had, certainly, strengthened it as a detective Force, and with the best results. When Colonel Henderson came to the head of the Force, in 1869, he found at Scotland Yard only 17 detectives—namely, 1 Superintendent, 4 Inspectors, and 12 Sergeants. From that day to this he had been steadily increasing them—feeling his way, of 1743 course, because you could not create a Force of that peculiar character all at once. The present number of detectives was 252—namely, the Superintendent, 6 Inspectors, 40 serjeants, and 205 constables. And that Force had undoubtedly borne a large share in the reduction of grave crime which had been brought about in the metropolis. He fully admitted that the diminution of crime was due to more causes than one—and he had over and over again borne testimony to the happy effect of Reformatory Institutions all over the country. But for all that there could be no doubt that a very considerable part of the diminution was owing to the increased efficiency of the detective Force. In 1869, there were 163 detectives, and the convictions obtained by them were 1,533; in 1870 the number of detectives being still 163, the convictions were 3,263; in 1871, the detectives being 183, the convictions were 3,537; and in 1872, the detectives being 203, the convictions were 3,904; and there were now 252 detectives. In addition to that, Colonel Henderson had established, to the great satisfaction of the public, a system of what was called "fixed points." In 1869 108 constables were, for the first time, stationed at certain points in the metropolis, and there were now 211 who were always to be found at given places for the protection of the neighbourhood. Then there were 161 constables specially posted at hackney-carriage standings, and available if their services were required. More than that, Colonel Henderson had established, with the most remarkable results, what might be called brigades of policemen in plain clothes, who patrolled the districts in which night crimes, such as burglary and house-breaking, were most frequently committed. For instance, between Westminster and Kensington, a district which had been remarkably subject to such crimes, from last October up to the present time not one single case had been committed. He would give the House some remarkable statistics. Since Colonel Henderson and, he might say, the present Government had come into office—for both entered on their duties nearly at the same time—the statistics of crime were as follows:—In 1869 the indictable offences against property were 17,388; burglary and house-breaking, 479; robbery, 118; larceny up to £5, 956; larceny 1744 from the person, 1,597; receiving stolen goods, 277. In 1870 the same class of crimes were respectively 14,871, 453, 92, 775, 1,198, and 154. In 1871 they were 12,652, 433, 83, 733, 1,178, and 96. In 1872 they were 12,732, 344, 60, 575, 1,174, and 116. That list showed a diminution in crime to the extent of seine 4,500 cases. Since Colonel Henderson's appointment, therefore, the cases of burglary had fallen from 479 to 344; robbery, 118 to 60; the more important cases of larceny, 956 to 575; larceny from the person, 1,597 to 1,174; receiving stolen goods, from 277 to 116. The number of houses of bad fame had been reduced from 1,740 in 1869 to 1,148 in 1872; and the number of known thieves at large from 4,336 in 1869, to 3,115 in 1872. It did seem to him a monstrous charge to say that Colonel Henderson had done nothing but stamp a military character upon the Police Force, when he could point to such results as these. One argument used by the hon. Gentleman, which he apparently thought quite convincing, was based on an entire misapprehension of the facts. The hon. Member stated that Colonel Henderson experienced so much difficulty in recruiting the Force that application had been made by the Home Office to the War Office for permission to employ 600 soldiers of the Army Reserve in the Police Force. The fact out of which this fiction had grown pointed to an entirely opposite conclusion to that come to by the hon. Member. The application had come from the Secretary of War, who had requested that the men of the Army Reserve should not be excluded from the Police Force, and the application was made for fear that such exclusion might prevent men entering the Army Reserve. The application was considered, and it was determined that the members of the Army Reserve might be admitted to the Force, provided the number of men so admitted did not exceed 500. Since June last the number of Army Reserve men admitted to the Police Force had been 30, and it was upon this meagre substratum of fact that the hon. Member had seen fit to build one of his chief arguments. Out of a Force of 9,800 men, many of whom were employed in the dockyards and other public Departments, only 700 had formerly been in the Army. No one could doubt the advantage of having 1745 a small infusion of men who had been subject to the discipline of the Army enlisted among the Police; such men offered advantages over the raw recruit which no Chief Commissioner would fail to appreciate. Considering the character of the ordinary recruit, the time which must necessarily elapse before he could be allowed to go alone, and the delicate character of the duties the Police had to discharge, it was really satisfactory that the Force could be maintained in its present state of efficiency, and that complaints against the Force were not more numerous. The last charge brought by the hon. Member against Colonel Henderson was such as would shake public confidence in him if it could be proved; but the circumstances in which Colonel Henderson was placed were altogether peculiar. The force of 9,800 men under his control was maintained, not like other Police Forces, by a fund which could always be made equal to the demands upon it, but by a fixed rate. Any substantial increase in their pay, therefore, would necessitate an appeal to Parliament, and Colonel Henderson found that the increased pay which should be given, if any change were made, would necessitate an additional expenditure of £90,000. Believing that the proceeds of the fixed rate would not be sufficient for this increased charge, Colonel Henderson declined to recommend it, and the hon. Member had assured the House that it was through his influence alone that the decision did not result in something like a general strike. The hon. Gentleman, however, had calumniated the Police by that statement. The majority of the Force was loyal in the extreme, and viewed the action of those whose hasty conduct gave rise to the surmise of the hon. Gentleman with great dissatisfaction. But he (Mr. Bruce) had considered the rise of wages all over the country, and had come to the conclusion that the men were justified in asking for an advance of pay, and as soon as he found, on his return to town, that it could be granted without calling for the intervention of Parliament, he no longer delayed acceeding to their application. The refusal to go on duty which actually occurred was the result of a sudden resolution adopted without discussion, it lasted only two hours, and was confined to a very few men, and the whole Force had 1746 since been in sound condition. The hon. Gentleman, however, had taken the very responsible position of presiding at a meeting of the Police, held without the permission of the authorities. In such a position he was bound to use language of the most cautious description; but what did the House think of the following exhibition of discretion? The hon. Member said—Why is it that in 20 months 2,000 Police have left the Force, and that an inferior class of men are now, joining? The question is answered simply—'Because of the shortness of pay, and the absence of any inducement to remain.' I believe that if the Home Office, during the last Session of Parliament, had drawn up a scheme of superannuation, this meeting would never have been called.The hon. Member had said he had taken great pains to ascertain the facts; but—from whatever cause—he had made a serious mistake, which an examination of public documents would have enabled him to correct. Now, what were the facts? He would refer them to the Reports, and instead of taking 20 months, would take the full two years. He found that in 1871 the number of voluntary resignations was 257; and in 1872, 383, making in all a total of 640. Well, considering the inducements held out to the Police to take other situations, he thought the number was not a very considerable one. Then, for comparison, let them take the years 1865 and 1866, when the Force was much less numerous than it was now, and they would find that the number of resignations was 803. Indeed, whether they judged by the number of voluntary resignations, or by the number of compulsory resignations, they would find that in recent years there had been a large decrease. He came now to what he considered a substantial grievance, not only in regard to the Metropolitan Police Force, but in regard to the Police of the whole country. He referred to the superannuation fund, and he admitted that if there were a chance of carrying it he would gladly submit a Bill on the subject to Parliament. The present scale of superannuation, which was that drawn up by Sir George Grey, had not yet come into operation, and could not come into operation for two or three years. It was, no doubt, possible to improve that scale. And in regard to the Provincial Police Forces greater security was needed in 1747 the fund out of which the pensions were payable. Unfortunately, however, it was impossible to deal with the question now, even for the purpose of procuring a better class of recruits for the Police Force, for both sides of the House were exceedingly sensitive as to anything relating to the increase of rates, and he thought Parliament would be disinclined to take up this matter until some understanding was come to as to the relative burdens that should be borne by the Local and Imperial Exchequers. Within certain limits, however, the Secretary of State was empowered to deal with the superannuation of the Metropolitan Police, and he hoped to be able to make some changes which would be no more than just, and would have a beneficial effect upon the future of the Force. The hon. Member asked for the appointment of a Select Committee. Now, the fact was that Select Committees at present sitting were 19 in number, and consisted of 275 Members, and these were Committees on public matters, and did not include a large number of Committees on Private Bills. Motions would also shortly be made for the appointment of three more Public Committees. Now, the question of superannuation would require the consideration of the most experienced Members of the House, and no doubt it would strengthen the hands of the Government if a distinct recommendation were made by a Committee so composed; but he feared it would be useless at that period of the Session to undertake such an inquiry. However, if the House genes rally wished for it, he would be quite disposed to consent to a Committee on the superannuation question, but he would view with something like alarm their entering into the larger questions which had been proposed. The hon. Member proposed that the whole body of Police throughout the country should be put under the authority of one Secretary of State. From that proposal he (Mr. Bruce) shrank with something like horror. He was old enough to remember the agitation caused by the proposal to institute a County Police; but it would be as nothing compared with the agitation which would ensue if the Government sought to take into their hands the management of the entire Police Force throughout the country, and it would be denounced on 1748 every side as an attempt at centralization. In conclusion, he must say that the hon. Gentleman had brought serious charges against the management of the Metropolitan Police, and especially against the distinguished man now at the head of that force; but he (Mr. Bruce) hoped he had shown that these charges were altogether unfounded, and that, judging by any criterion you pleased—in their detection of crime or general good conduct—the Metropolitan Police Force ought to stand as high as ever it stood in the good opinion of the country.
§ MR. CLARE READsaid, that there had been a great amount of dissatisfaction expressed throughout the Police Force in counties, in consequence of this scheme of superannuation having been dangled before their eyes for the last 10 or 12 years. There was a strong disinclination on the part of men to enter the Force, and when they asked the reason they found that it was generally connected with the superannuation fund. With regard to the military character of the Force, he trusted that it would never be drilled more than was necessary to make the men move in order.
§ COLONEL WILSON-PATTENsaid, he was of opinion, that if there was greater unity of action between the County and the Borough Police in the rural districts it would tend much to prevent crime. At present, owing to the want of proper combination and concert between the two parties, much crime escaped detection. As to the Select Committees he had made the same calculation, and had arrived at the same result as his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department; and, in consequence of the number of Committees, it was difficult now to select Members for the discharge of those duties. Much of the difficulty that existed was owing to the practice of appointing more numerous Committees than formerly were appointed; for whereas no Committee used to consist of more than 15 Members, now there was one Committee of 17 Members, four of 19, one of 21, and one of 30. The result was—the subjects referred to the Committees were not better, but were less thoroughly investigated; and in a recent instance, the quorum had to be reduced because the Members did not attend. He called upon the Government to resist the appoint- 1749 ment of these largo Committees and keep as much as possible to the old rules.
MR. PAGETsaid, he had hoped that the hon. Member for Windsor (Mr. Eykyn) would have come down to the House in penitential garb and expressed regret for the part he took last autumn; for, of all the mischievous agitations, that affecting the Metropolitan Police was the most mischievous. It was very well for the hon. Member to say to the Police—"Do not strike," which was much like the advice—"Don't nail his ears to the pump." That was the Gentleman who would have the House believe that his interference was the sole reason why the strike did not assume greater proportions than it did. He (Mr. Paget) did not think it right that this debate should end without a distinct protest against that action of the hon. Member. The Secretary for the Home Department had distinctly proved that many of the statements made on the occasion referred to were utterly unfounded; he (Mr. Paget) himself had had opportunities of becoming acquainted with the facts of the case as they then happened, and was convinced that the operations of the hon. Member were most mischievous, and that his supposition as to military organization had no foundation, and was merely a fiction of his own brain. The Secretary for the Home Department had made a most able defence of a Force which was so thoroughly good in itself that he (Mr. Paget) thought it scarcely needed any defence; indeed, everyone who knew the Police Force and the immense difficulties of the duties they had to perform knew how well, as a rule, those duties were performed. With regard to superannuation, he was quite satisfied that an investigation was necessary after the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman, and he only hoped the right hon. Gentleman would urge the Government to deal with the questions of rating and local taxation, so as to enable him to carry into effect those reforms with regard to superannuation which he was so anxious to accomplish.
§ MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is entitled to make an explanation, but not to reply.
§ MR. EYKYNsaid, he did not understand the right hon. Gentleman the 1750 Home Secretary's promise in regard to the Select Committee.
MR. BRUCEsaid, that with regard to superannuation his statement was this—that if there was anything like a general desire on the part of the House that a Select Committee should be appointed to consider that subject, he should not offer any opposition. But no intimation had been made that such an investigation was desired by the general body of the House, or by the more experienced Members.