HC Deb 08 April 1870 vol 200 cc1552-81
SIR JOHN LUBBOCK,

who had given notice to call attention to the Report of the Military Education Commission, especially with relation to the discouragement which it gives to the study of natural and physical science, said, that considering the short time during which he had had a seat in that House, he ought perhaps to apologize for bringing forward a question of so much importance. The Commission was appointed in 1868 to inquire into the state of Military Education, and they had recently made their Report, which he did not intend to criticize in any hostile spirit, because he was fully aware how greatly the country was indebted to them for investigating this most important subject. The Commissioners had recommended that certain changes should be made in the examinations for direct commissions. Under the present system, out of a total of 13,800 marks, 3,600 were given for mathematics, 3,600 for classics, 1,200 for the English language, 1,200 for modern languages, 1,200 for ancient and modern history with geography, 1,200 for mineralogy and geology, 1,200 for chemistry, heat, and electricity, and 600 for drawing. Of the total number of marks, however, only 1,500 were required to qualify the candidate for a commission—1,200 of which might be obtained for knowledge of arithmetic and the first three books of Euclid, and 200 more for writing an ordinary English letter without a grammatical mistake. The Commissioners proposed, out of a total of 20,000 marks, of which number 2,000 must be obtained, to give 4,000 for mathematics, 4,000 for Latin, 3,000 for Greek, 1,000 for English composition, 2,000 for French, 2,000 for German, 1,500 for history, 1,500 for chemistry, heat, or electricity, and 1,000 for drawing. The House would therefore see that, while the Commissioners recommended that the total number of marks should be increased, the number given for English and for science would actually be diminished. The Commissioners justified that recommendation by the importance of checking the system of cramming, and the desirability of obtaining candidates from the public schools. He had, however, already shown that the examination under the existing system was extremely easy. The following question was put to Major General William Napier, the Vice President of the Council of Military Education, upon this point:— If I understand you rightly, the subjects are so very simple—namely, Latin, English, and arithmetic, that one would suppose that no preliminary preparation at what are generally called 'cramming' schools would be at all necessary?—That is what I say. If a boy has a tolerable knowledge of classics and arithmetic and Eng- lish, he ought to be able to pass that examination direct from school. And it would, indeed, be a disgrace to our public schools if they were unable to turn out boys who could pass such an examination. There was, moreover, ample proof that the boys at our public schools could pass this examination. The boys who came up from Cheltenham and Marlborough almost invariably passed. At Eton, a special "Army Class" had been formed, and Dr. Hornby stated that no boy going up from Eton had failed in the Army examination since the reconstitution of that class. Moreover, the great public schools were now commencing in earnest to teach science. Dr. Hornby, in a letter addressed to himself, said— To put it shortly, physical science in some form is made compulsory on every boy, from the time he gets in the fifth form till he gets with the first 100 of the school. Dr. Butler and Dr. Ridding, the headmasters respectively of Harrow and Winchester, had also favoured him with similar information. He might be told that science was not necessary for the officers of the Line regiments; but, in answer to a question on that subject— It has no doubt been found in many wars that it was necessary, particularly with our limited Army, to call for the assistance of officers of the Line to come in aid of the Engineers? Major General Napier replied—"Frequently." Hence, although science was less necessary for officers in the Line than for those in the Artillery and Engineers, it was very undesirable that it should be discouraged, and the House would remember that, even at present, it was only optional. Before recommending that it should be so much reduced in importance, surely the Commissioners ought to have examined some scientific witnesses. The Professor of Mathematics at Woolwich was the only scientific witness examined; but they did not ask him any questions on the point. He had, however, that gentleman's authority for saying that he would have rather urged the necessity of extending rather than diminishing the weight attached to science. It was said that the change was made to prevent cramming. He would remind the House that means could be taken to guard against the dangers of cramming. Mr. Bloxam, Lecturer on Chemistry at Woolwich, said a vivâ voce examination would always defeat cramming, and Professor Williamson said that no cramming in chemistry could possibly deceive a competent examiner. On the subject of English history, Dr. Dasent, than whom it would be impossible to have a higher authority, gave this evidence— Lieutenant-Colonel Chesney: Have you ever heard any complaint that English history, or modern history, is a subject especially liable to be what is called crammed, in the sense of taking its knowledge without digesting it? Dr. Dasent: I do not think so; I think that it is the examiner's fault if he is taken in by cramming. He now came to the second part of his subject—the examination for entrance at Woolwich. At present there were 15,500 marks, of which 2,500 were required. The respective numbers were—Mathematics, 3,500; English, 1,000; Latin, 1,500; Greek, 1,500; French, 1,000; German, 1,000; Hindustani, 1,000; English history, 1,000; geography, 1,000; chemistry, heat, electricity, 1,000; mineralogy and geology, 1,000; drawing, 1,000—15,500. The proposed examination would be 17,000 marks, thus arranged—Mathematics, 4,000; English composition and literature, or English composition and history, 1,500; Latin, 3,000; Greek, 2,000; French, 2,000; German, 2,000; chemistry and heat, or electricity, 1,500; drawing', 1,000—17,000. Thus, omitting drawing, 14,500 marks out of 16,000 are given for languages and mathematics. There is no geography, no history excepting English, no political economy, and very little modern science. In fact, there was hardly anything that had been discovered within the last 1,800 years. The Commissioners said they wished to discourage cramming, and, no doubt, cramming was very undesirable in itself; but there was something worse than cramming, and that was ignorance. Cramming was a bad way of learning a subject: but it was better than learning nothing of the subject at all. It was said that the example of the public schools was being followed in respect of those military examinations; but he had already shown that the public schools were beginning to teach natural and experimental science. He had the express testimony of the masters of the great public schools at Eton and Winchester that, if the scheme of the Commissioners were carried into effect, it would strongly tend to discourage their promotion of scientific instruction. Like Lord Chatham and Sir Richard Strahan the public schools had been waiting for the Universities, and the Universities had been waiting for the public schools; both, he was happy to say, were now moving in the right direction, and it would be very unfortunate if Parliament sanctioned the recommendations of the Military Education Commissioners, who desired to take a step backwards. He now passed to the course of instruction at Woolwich. The present subjects were—fortification, artillery, surveying, mechanics, natural philosophy, chemistry, and military history. The proposed subjects were—obligatory—mathematics, fortification, artillery, military drawing, military history, and mechanics; voluntary—higher mathematics, fortification, Latin, Greek, French, German, chemistry, and free-hand drawing. At Sandhurst, the proposed course of instruction was the same as at Woolwich; but the present course was—fortification, surveying, military history, mathematics, language, chemistry, geology, drawing, military exercises. Here, again, science was placed in a much worse position than at present. Chemistry, indeed, was admitted among the voluntary subjects; but, while marks were given for every other voluntary subject, none were allotted to chemistry. It was suggested to him that this was an accidental omission; but as the same omission was made in the Sandhurst course, he could not think it was accidental. In the proposed course there was hardly any English, no history except military history, no geography, no science except mechanics, no political economy, and no medical knowledge. At Sandhurst, there was geology, but there was none at Woolwich. It was strange that the subject should be omitted, seeing that it was of such great importance, and that military men—he need only mention Portlock and Murchison—had laboured in it so successfully. The "book-worm" objection did not apply to the science, for to acquire it a man must do something more than read books. He would call the attention of the House to answers given by Major General Napier and the Duke of Cambridge on the value of scientific attainments. Lord De Ros asked Major General Napier— Is not chemistry becoming of more daily advantage and importance, both to the Artillery and to the Engineers? He answered—Yes; and it is taught at Woolwich very successfully. The Duke of Cambridge was asked—Perhaps scientific attainments should be regarded as one qualification among several? His Royal Highness replied—Most assuredly; and I should like to see them extended as much as possible; but I think that a happy combination of both is what we should strive at. As regarded geology, he might call attention to two or throe cases, in order to illustrate its importance to officers. Ports-down great fort was built on the summit of a chalk ridge, on what geologists called an anticlinal axis. The strata sloped in each direction away from the summit; a very deep well had been sunk here; but as the rain which fell on the hill drained away along the line of the strata, this was the worst possible place for such a purpose. When the military authorities were building the College at Sandhurst, they had a quantity of bricks made in the Blackwater Valley of river alluvium. These consequently fell to pieces, and others had to be made. Along our South Coast groins were placed to arrest the movement of the shingle caused by the prevalent winds and tides. The Military Engineers were ordered to set groins on the Dover coast, and they slanted them the wrong way, so helping the shingle on. Some of the forts on our Southern Coast having been built on yielding strata had given away, and though the damage might be repaired, it had caused great expense; and, unfortunately, would probably continue to do so. When our Army went to the Crimea, Sir Roderick Murchison applied to the Government to send out a geologist, but that request was not complied with. An unhealthy position was chosen for our troops in the Crimea from the want of a scientific acquaintance with the geological conformation of the ground. Sir John Burgoyne wrote home to Sir Roderick Murchison to ask whether, if an artesian well were sunk, a supply of water could be obtained for the Army. Sir Roderick replied that it was impossible to answer such a question here without a proper knowledge of the nature of the ground; but that if there had been a geologist on the spot with the Army, he would have been able to answer it. He (Sir John Lubbock) did not allude to these facts with any view of criticizing the Royal Engineers. It would be easy to quote similar mistakes on the part of civil engineers. He wished, however, to show the importance of geological knowledge in military operations. There could be no doubt, then, that there were cases in which a knowledge of chemistry and geology would be extremely useful to our forces in the field; and, moreover, in addition to these practical advantages, the value of the mental training given by the study of natural science was most important. One reason alleged for omitting science from the course for Woolwich was that the work was too hard; but Dr. Barry, Principal of King's College, Major-General Simmons, Colonel Owen (Professor of Artillery), Professor Sylvester, and other authorities, all agreed in saying that the studies at Woolwich were not at all too severe. Captain Bracken-bury, Assistant Director of Military Studies, even said— I have heard lately at Woolwich that some of the young officers have even complained that they have so little to learn. But if the studies were really too hard, surely the course should be lengthened instead of being shortened, as proposed by the Commissioners. Then, what was a proper system to adopt? By his Resolution he only asked that they should leave things in statu quo as far as science was concerned; but he confessed he should be glad to see a large step made in a direction the opposite of that recommended by the Royal Commissioners. No man could be deemed properly educated unless he had some acquaintance with all the great departments of human knowledge. He was not advocating the teaching of a smattering of those different departments of knowledge, but the well-grounding of students in them. The matriculation examination in the University of London showed that to be quite possible; for those who came up to that examination, the subjects required included arithmetic, algebra, geometry, the first four Books of Euclid, mechanics, hydrostatics, hydraulics, optics, chemistry, Greek, Latin, French, and German. [Laughter.] That examination appeared to be a source of merriment to some hon. Gentlemen, who probably thought it extremely difficult. He frankly owned that it was a severe examination; but it had been arranged after very careful consideration, and no fewer than four members of the Cabinet were also members of the Senate of the University of London, Moreover, that examination was evidently not so absurd as it seemed to some hon. Gentlemen, for of the youth of 16 and 17 who went up for it, more than 50 per cent passed creditably. He did not wish to discourage classics, and he maintained that, even in this respect, our present system was very unsatisfactory in its results; indeed, it is impossible to teach them with advantage as long as other things were not taught with them; for the human mind, like the human body, required a variety in its nourishment. He certainly thought that too much time was devoted to verses. Here were four of the verses set for the boys to turn into Latin— Thou, midmost of our world, I narrate wonders, Rulest stars, lest they should wander, laws being broken. And again— The fiery steed, his tail in air proudly cooked, Not without much neighing, traverses glad pastures. Such lines would be familiar to all hon. Members who had been educated at our public schools; but no man would ever be made a poet by translating such verses into Latin. Many of those who were reported to be dunces, and who thought themselves to be so because they did not get on in classics, if they were allowed a chance in science would be found to equal those who now went ahead of them at school. He quite agreed with Mr. Farrar, that the present system of teaching classics was an entire failure, and that, as Milton said— We do amiss to spend seven or eight years in scraping together so much miserable Greek and Latin as might be learnt otherwise easily and delightfully in one year. Three or four hours a week devoted to science would probably be sufficient, and he maintained that, far from interfering with the classical studies, this variety of mental diet—if he might say so—would have an excellent effect on the mind. Not only would some knowledge of science be obtained, but he believed that Latin and Greek also would be much more thoroughly mastered than they now are. Lastly, he would trouble the House with a few remarks on the military educational system of other countries. Captain Hozier, who had an intimate acquaintance with the Prussian system, in answer to Lord Dufferin, expressed a decided opinion that Prussian officers were better educated than ours. Again, Lord Dufferin asked Lord Walden— You have a large acquaintance with foreign countries where that system of military education principally prevails, and from what you know, without pre-supposing a very intimate acquaintance with those institutions, are you inclined to think that they have a tendency to give a higher scientific tone to the officers of foreign armies, than that which is possessed by our own officers. Lord Walden, in reply, said— I certainly think so, because they teach much we do not teach. Turning to France, what was the course at the Ecole Polytechnique? There much more weight was attached to natural science than was the case at the entrance examination for Woolwich. The instruction, besides the other branches of study, included mechanics, physics, heat, electricity, chemistry, and astronomy. Out of 673 lectures given in the two years at the Ecole Polytechnique, 150 were devoted to scientific subjects. Again, in Prussia, at the Artillery and Engineer School, of the 32 hours per week three were given to study in physics and three to chemistry. At West Point, in the United States, natural philosophy, chemistry, and geology held an important place in the course of study and in the examinations. To sum up, the general result of the Report of the Commissioners appointed to examine the Systems of Military Education pursued in foreign countries, was to this effect— We should not, indeed, adequately convey our own impressions, which are founded on a careful study of the schools described in this Report, if we did not at once state our belief that in all the countries we have visited a far greater value is attached to the possession of a high scientific training by at least a considerable portion of the officers of the Army, than is the case among ourselves. Not only are the schools made of more importance, the teaching of every school higher, the discipline apparently more strict, the number of teachers generally greater; but the whole of the education is conducted on a more complete system. In support of this resolution he would quote one more authority who, he was sure, would carry great weight with the House. He meant His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge who said— I think that Woolwich is now going on as satisfactorily as it can well do; and I am satisfied that if it is allowed to go on without interruption you will find that, both in discipline and in every respect, it will go on as satisfactorily as the public can require, or as the interests of the public service demand. In conclusion, he had attempted to show that the examination for commissions is at present very easy; that the course of instruction in our military educational establishments is not unduly severe; that the time devoted to science under the present system is very limited; that a knowledge of science is extremely valuable in military operations; and that foreign armies have a better scientific training than ours. He, therefore, hoped the House would agree to the Resolution which, stood in his name, because, if the recommendations of the Commissioners were carried out, they would lower the standard of education through out the Army, would affect most prejudicially all public and other schools, and were in entire opposition to the tendency of all recent action in reference to general education. After thanking the House for the patience with which it had listened to him, the hon. Baronet concluded by moving his Resolution.

DR. LYON PLAYFAIE,

in seconding the Motion, said, the Motion involved such important interests, both to education and to the Army, that he was glad his hon. Friend had brought the subject under the attention of the House. As he had explained, the Royal Commission desired to prevent candidates from "cramming" for entrance into the Army, and with this view they recommended the Government to place a greater reliance on the public schools of England, and on the classical subjects to which they were, until recent years, chiefly confined. These classical subjects they promoted with heavy marks, and proportionately depressed the modern languages and sciences, which had lately shown a tendency to take root in our old schools. The first question that presented itself naturally was, whether the public schools really did supply the largest proportion of officers to the Army; and next, whether this justified the Royal Commission in according to them an altogether exceptional favour, by handicapping the private schools. Now, in point of fact, the public schools sent only a small proportion of officers to the Army, either directly or indirectly. Directly, indeed, they sent less than 5 per cent; and if Cheltenham and Marl-borough were excluded—both of which schools had modern departments—positively only 3 per cent of our officers came directly from the great classical schools of England, while 97 per cent went from other schools which were found to be better suited for their training. Yet this Royal Commission gave uncommon favour to the schools sending 3 per cent, to the great disadvantage of all the other schools which supply 97 per cent. What was the reason for this strange proceeding? It was contended that officers who went directly into the Army were youths without literary tastes, and who should be forced, therefore, to attend more closely to the few subjects taught in public schools, and not be induced to cram themselves with other subjects of modern information. It did not seem to have occurred to the Commissioners that the very fact of their not possessing literary tastes night justify their acquirement of other kinds of knowledge more suited to their minds. It was surely true that, since the periods of Greece and Rome, there were subjects of human knowledge that had been added to the world, and which were not to be found in their literature, glorious as that was. The Council of Military Education, reporting this year, said— Great progress has been made since 1804 in the obligatory section of mathematics, and in history, experimental sciences, and drawing; and no change of importance has been made in regard to English, Latin, or German. But the Commission determined to discourage those studies which showed marked signs of improvement. Well, when they found 97 per cent of our future officers going to schools which promoted the study of such subjects, one would have thought that this was a reason for encouraging rather than discouraging them. But no the Commissioners had such a horror of "cramming," that they were determined to put it down by largely favouring the schools which certainly did not cram. What was "cramming?" "Cramming," in education, was to teach very quickly what ought to be taught slowly. But, surely, there might be too slow as well as too quick teaching. The indirect passage from public schools into the Army showed that this was the case; for, although only 3 per cent came directly from them, 16 per cent went indirectly—that was, after availing themselves of the quicker methods of tuition given in private schools. This did not arise from the necessity of additional subjects being required to those taught in public schools; for, with a strong leaning to them, the former scheme was arranged after a conference between the military authorities and the head teachers of these schools. General Napier, the Vice President of the Military Council of Education, after explaining this, was asked— So that in truth a knowledge of arithmetic, of English, and of Latin would be quite sufficient to enable a youth to pass?—Certainly. Yet this small amount of knowledge could not be communicated to four-fifths of the candidates who desired to go from the public schools to the Army! If "cramming," to which they resorted for aid, were to teach too quickly, there might be some moan between that and teaching too slowly. There was that mean in many excellent private schools, which were in no degree subject to the imputation of "cramming," but most of which would be crushed by the adoption of the recommendations of this Commission; for it was not the fact that the modern subjects were taught badly in them when compared with classics in public schools. This was shown in the Report of the Council of Military Education, for they gave a table of passes described as "good and excellent," including in those terms all candidates who obtained more than 50 per cent of marks in the subjects selected by them. This gave a ready means of measuring the effectiveness with which various subjects were taught. Well, in 1867 less than 11 per cent of those who selected classics passed well, while 57 per cent did so in modern languages, and 27 per cent in the sciences. He contended, further, that the Royal Commission had mistaken the purport of the evidence of all the educationalists who were examined by them. They examined the Bishop of Exeter, as late Head Master of Rugby; Dr. Barry, as late Head Master of Cheltenham; and Dr. Benson, the Master of Wellington College. Not one of them depreciated the importance of the modern subjects of education, or unduly exalted that of classics. The most that they said was that, on the whole, they thought there was a better intellectual training on the ancient than on the modern side of public schools. That was possible, and indeed probable; for experience in teaching classics had been stored up in schools since the revival of letters after the Middle Ages, while modern subjects were, for the first time, obtruding themselves into these ancient systems, and were but organizing the best methods for using them as means of intellectual development. Yet, so far as military officers were concerned, the figures which he had quoted showed that modern subjects seemed better fitted for them than ancient studies. It remained for the Commission to favour the one for reasons which he could not discover in the evidence laid before them. The distinguished educationalists who gave their evidence had all recently introduced natural and physical sciences into their schools of Rugby, Cheltenham, and Marlborough. At Eton, Harrow, and Winchester, also, they were introduced and encouraged. Yet, in the face of these facts, this Commission gave to them the most positive discouragement. For direct commissions in 1868, classics had 26 per cent of marks—the Commission raised them to 35 per cent; while science in the former year had 17 per cent of marks, and the Commission depressed it to 9 per cent. For entrance into Woolwich in 1868, classics had 19 per cent of marks, and the Commission elevated them to 30 per cent; while science had 17 per cent, and was now lowered to 7½ per cent. Yet, in reality, about as many candidates took up science as take up Greek; so that there was no apology from paucity of numbers, for while 27 per cent selected Greek, 28 per cent selected experimental and natural sciences. He had studied the Report with diligence to find justification for these strange alterations. He had shown that it was not to be found in the fact that officers were chiefly supplied from public schools, and that it was not to be found in the relative excellence with which classics and modern subjects were taught in schools, whether public or private, and that it was not to be found in the evidence of the Head Masters examined. He had looked for the cause, therefore, in the constitution of the Commission, and in the convictions of some of the Commissioners, as indicated by their questions. The Royal Commission was constituted of military men and persons interested in education. Of the latter only those were included who were known to be strong advocates of classical education. One was the hon. Member for Perthshire (Mr. Parker), a real lover of education, but whose sympathies were far more classical than scientific. The other was the Head Master of Harrow, who was an excellent choice. But while objecting to neither of these members, he must express his surprise that not a single civilian acquainted with natural or physical science was placed on that Commission. Whatever might be the views of the Commissioners as to classics, some of them had the strangest notions of the nature of science. One gallant Commissioner put the following question to General Napier:— Do you not think that the marks allotted to natural sciences and experimental sciences are too high, they being mere matter of memory? His (Dr. Playfair's) impression of science till he read this passage, was that its object was to discover and explain the wonderful wisdom displayed in creation, and to reveal to mankind the infinitely wise laws which govern the universe. But to this gallant Commissioner all this was a mere matter of memory, and the Creator's laws were like the pratings of a parrot. He had not the slightest objection—on the contrary, he entirely approved of classics being one portal to the military service. His only objection was that, while the Commissioners had opened this very widely, they had nearly shut all the other portals. This was a mistake sufficiently serious in regard to direct commissions; but it became absolutely pernicious to the service when applied to the scientific branches of the profession. The candidates for Woolwich did not come from the old public schools of England; or, to speak precisely, in ten years, out of 855 entries, only five students came direct from them. On the other hand, nearly one-third went from the modern department of Cheltenham. The staple of education there was mathematics, drawing of all kinds, the natural and physical sciences, French and German, English, fortification, and surveying. Well, with this great success of a particular school, one might have thought that such subjects would have commended themselves to the Commissioners; for it was as clear as noonday that they were admirably fitted for the future occupation of artillerists and engineers. Yet their recommendations would largely discourage such preparatory training. In the entrance examinations to Woolwich no less than 5,000 marks were offered for Latin and Greek, and only 1,500 for the whole of the experimental sciences; while the natural sciences, taught so successfully at Rugby and Cheltenham, were in future to have no marks at all. But the House might think that though the Commissioners thus discouraged any special preparatory training before entering the scientific academy of the Army, they would especially foster the sciences when the students entered it. Not in the least. Beyond mathematics, ending with the low standard of plane trigonometry, and practical mechanics, there was no science which was to be obligatory in Woolwich; and the only sciences which were voluntary were higher mathematics and chemistry. But, oven then, when in the following page the marks were given to voluntary subjects, chemistry, the only physical or natural science to be taught in the Academy, was left without any marks whatever, though Latin and Greek were again remembered with the same loving favour. All this would be singularly ludicrous, if it were not so serious in the interests of intellectual progress, and to the character of the scientific services of the Army. The original scheme of entrance examinations into the Army was a wise and liberal one, and had been steadily kept in view by the Council of Military Education. It was to undervalue no branch of human knowledge, but to give the freest access to all varieties of intelli-ligence and education. If any alteration in what the French term "co-efficients of influence" in education had been considered advisable, they might have expected that this change would have been made in the light of modern improvements in the art of war; for it was notorious that this art was undergoing a revolution by the discoveries and applications of science, especially by those of mechanics, chemistry, and electricity. The old Trojan, Grecian, and Roman heroes, a knowledge of whoso prowess and language was now to be the chief portal for entering our Army, won their battles by physical endurance and personal courage; but Chassepots, Sniders, revolvers, and Whitworth small cannon, firing their ten and twenty shots in a minute, and electricity flashing the higher commands to distant parts in less time than a trooper charged with an order could tighten the girth of his horse, would alter the old tactics which enabled a British soldier to be irresistible in a bayonet charge. ["Oh, oh!"] Hon. Gentlemen dissented from this view; but this was so in every other art, and war was not likely to be an exception; for animal courage and brute strength were becoming of less importance than skill and intelligence applied to the discoveries of science. Pluck in the British soldier was constant but stationary, while science was changing and progressive. In the art of war, as in the arts of industry, they found that other nations were awake to this change, and were preparing their officers to meet it. But, while they were awake, this Royal Commission advised our officers to go to sleep on antique Greek and Roman beds, which had never been made anew, but remained the same as when their original occupants left them. While our public schools were loosening themselves from their old traditions, this Commission tried to dam up our officers outside the current of events which was carrying all other people rapidly onward. The Resolution of his hon. Friend was studiously moderate; but it gave them the opportunity of showing that if this be, as it was recently called by his right hon. Friend the Member for North Devon, an age of Royal Commissions, it was an age also in which the representatives of the people could criticize and pass judgment on the opinions pronounced by any body of Royal Commissioners, when these appeared to be prejudicial to the public welfare.

Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "it is not desirable to diminish the value hitherto attached to natural and physical science and the English language, in the examinations for direct commissions, and for admission to the military educational institutions, nor to lessen the importance of those subjects in the subsequent course of instruction and examinations,"—(Sir John Lubbock,) —instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

LORD EUSTACE CECIL

said, he desired to congratulate the hon. Member for Maidstone (Sir John Lubbock) on his first address in that House, and he also begged to express his acknowledgments to the hon. Member for the Universities of Edinburgh and St. Andrews (Dr. Lyon Playfair) for the very educational speech with which he had favoured the House. It must be a matter of peculiar congratlation that the subject of military education had had the advantage of being sustained by the oratorical artillery of those two hon. Gentlemen. At the same time he must say that he could not agree with them, and he did not suppose that they expected he should; but he thought he would be able to put before the House some of the reasons on which the Royal Commissioners had come to the decision which the hon. Members found fault with. In the first place, the hon. Members complained that with respect to the entrance examinations for direct commissions for Sandhurst and for Woolwich natural science was altogether eliminated. The fact of the case was, that in regard to those entrance examinations the only thing the Commissioners recommended was that geology and mineralogy should be omitted. The experimental sciences would still be retained as they were before; but the examination would be improved by being divided into two branches, chemistry and electricity, an option being given to the candidates to prepare themselves in either. Then, as regards the course of instruction at Woolwich, chemistry and mechanics had alone been retained; and the Royal Commissioners were not answerable for the exclusion of geology, as that was excluded two years ago. In the Sandhurst course chemistry had been excluded, and experimental physics and military accounts and correspondence substituted. This decision was come to because the Commissioners thought it was quite impossible that the cadets—young men of a certain age—should be able to make themselves perfect in so many subjects. This was really at the root of the whole matter. Man's life was limited, and it was quite impossible, in the time allotted to young men to prepare themselves for the military or any other profession, to be able to go through the curriculum which had been sketched out that night. Some allowance should be made for the manifest imperfection of the human mind and body. It was quite impossible for young men to become Admirable Crichtons in the course of two short years, and if it were attempted to make them so it would be found that they would only turn out admirable dunces. He would now turn to the matter of the public schools, and he admitted that there was a strong feeling on the part of the Commissioners that as much encouragement as possible should be given to the public schools. This was done on very good evidence. The Commissioners heard the evidence of many general and commanding officers, one of them a Member of that House; and the effect of their evidence was that the public schoolboy, as an officer, was second to none in all the battles in which the British Army had been engaged. It was not, therefore, to be wondered at that the Commissioners should have given the preference to public schools rather than to private institutions. The hon. Member for Edinburgh University had said a good deal about preparatory schools; but for his part he must say that what were called preparatory schools were composed of a certain number of young men sent to private tutors, and they hardly deserved the name of preparatory schools, but might be more properly termed "cramming schools." With regard to the public schools, it was, as he before said, the wish and desire of the Commissioners that encouragement should be given to them, and that could only be done in one way. It was well known that Mahomet once desired to reach a certain mountain; but as the mountain would not go to him he found it necessary to go to the mountain. That story might be applied to the case of the public schools. The Commissioners found that they could not make the public schools meet them halfway, however much they desired it, and, therefore, they had to go to the public schools. It was an undoubted fact that a very large proportion of the candidates for commissions invariably came from the public schools, and the only course open to the Commissioners under these circumstances was to adapt the examinations for Sandhurst and Woolwich to the subjects taught at the public schools. They had the advantage of the advice of one of the Royal Commissioners who, it was well known, took the greatest interest in education—namely, Dr. Butler, of Harrow. A certain amount of evidence had been brought under the notice of the House by the two hon. Members who had spoken; but he noticed that both of them made use of the same witness. They did not instance any other military man of distinction except General Napier, and they brought the authority of his name forward to prove the same conclusion; but the fact was that when that gallant officer's evidence was examined it would be found that, far from bearing out the views put before the House, it proved directly the contrary. The opinion of the Commissioners that the course of instruction at Woolwich, Sandhurst, and the Staff College Institution was not sufficiently practical, was borne out by the Duke of Cambridge, General Napier, Colonel Addison, Colonel Porter, and many others. The Duke of Cambridge expressed his opinion that geology and physics might be well omitted at Sandhurst for the sake of riding; and Colonel Porter said that though chemistry and geology might be very good for Staff officers, they were not necessary for ordinary officers. Colonel Field, Inspector of Studies at the Royal Military Academy, said— I attach no great importance to the study of chemistry, natural philosophy, geology, and mineralogy before entrance. If desirable they could form optional subjects of examination; but the knowledge acquired would probably be so superficial that not much real value in an educational point of view could be attached to it. Major Adams, Professor of Military History at Sandhurst, said— It is my opinion that the course at the Staff College, considering its duration, should be altogether restricted to the compulsory subjects mentioned in Paragraph 26, General Order. Captain Crealock, 95th Regiment, said— Geology and chemistry may form part of a liberal education, but I cannot see the necessity for their being included in the military course of instruction for a Staff officer; as at present credited in examinations, they form an inducement for students to neglect other important studies. Lieutenant Colonel Wilson, Professor of Military History at Woolwich, said— The three subjects last named—mechanics, chemistry, natural philosophy—have been raised in importance. More time has been appropriated for them, and marks are given. I doubt whether this has been altogether an improvement. In fact, considering the nature of the last two of these subjects, and the general inability of youthful intellects to grasp and master them, especially when fairly occupied with other matters, I think too much has been attempted, and that the time given to them might be reduced with advantage. Two years ago geology was also on the list of subjects. Its omission and replacement by military history was a wise step, not only because of the value of the latter subject to military students, but also because little good came of the former. Lieutenant Colonel Porter said— I do not think that for the education of an ordinary officer many of those subjects are necessary—for instance, chemistry and geology. I think that chemistry and geology, though very good for a Staff officer, are not necessary for the education of an ordinary officer. Canon Heaviside said, with regard to Woolwich— I think the cadets might get enough of the elements of mechanics, and soon, for their profession without being forced to the extended line of reading which they now have at Woolwich. Then as regarded cramming, a young officer had, when asked if he was crammed in any particular subject at a crammer's before going to Sandhurst, answered—"Yes, in natural philosophy, chemistry, and geology." Lieutenant Baring, who had just passed through the Staff College the first of his list, said— I think that geology might with advantage be entirely done away with, as well as a certain portion of chemistry. For instance, telegraphy, I think, ought either to be taught at the College, or else officers should be sent to Chatham to go through a course of it; but I look upon all the time spent in analyzing compounds in the laboratory as wasted—i.e., a man's time might be more usefully employed. Some remarks had been made as to the inferiority of our officers to foreign officers. He begged leave to differ in toto from what had fallen from the two hon. Gentlemen on that subject. It was quite a mistake to suppose that the acquirements of French and Prussian officers were greater than those possessed by our Staff College officers. At St. Cyr, which furnished two-thirds of the officers of the French Army, neither geology nor experimental science were required, nor was geology taught at all there. The Polytechnique was a preparatory and generally scientific school; but it could not in any respect be called an exclusively military school. It was half a civilian school and supplied the best civil engineers. A large number of the savans of France were educated there. Then, with regard to Prussia—in the cadet schools (not competitive), the nearest approaching to Woolwich and Sandhurst, two hours weekly were only given to physical science, and it did not appear that geology or chemistry were taught at all. Formerly, subjects such as German philosphy and chemistry were taught; these studies had, however, been gradually dropped, from a wish to make the course of instruction more strictly professional. In the Artillery and Engineer Schools for officers after entering the Army, the instruction in physics and chemistry was only three or four hours weekly. In the War Academy, answering to our Staff College, chemistry, geology, and physical science were all taught, but they were optional subjects. Considering this state of things abroad then, and the evidence brought before them at home, the Commission had, if anything, unduly favoured scientific instruction. For what was the case? In the after instruction of Artillery officers there was a course at the Arsenal. Experimental sciences had been included in the entrance examination at both Woolwich and Sandhurst. The Commissioners desired to do justice to the experimental sciences as far as they could; but they believed that the other sciences in a military point of view, were far more important. They felt that if a student who came up from a public school had acquired the ordinary education of an English gentleman it was quite sufficient in the first instance, and his future education in professional subjects might very well be relegated to the Staff College. No change of any importance had been made in the general course of study in the Staff College. He would not go into the subject of marks; that was a mere matter of detail, and could always be altered at any moment. He might, however, say that, whereas in the examinations for direct appointments, before the Commission was issued, the marks were as follows:—3,600 for mathematics and 1,200 for science—now they were 4,000 for mathematics and 1,500 for science; so that it would be seen that they had increased the marks for the latter subject in greater proportion than for the former, which constituted the foundation of all military education. He had to thank the House for listening to his explanations on this subject, which was a difficult one, particularly after dinner. It was not easy to answer two hon. Gentlemen who had got up their subjects so well; but he had done his best, and he hoped he had shown that there were at least two sides to a question. If the Commissioners did not come up to the ideas of the two hon. Gentlemen who had introduced this subject in the matter of natural science, they would, he felt sure, do them the simple justice to say they had shown every de- sire to promote the efficiency of the service and the advantage of those military institutions in which they all took so much interest.

MR. CARNEGIE

said, he had hoped to hear from the noble Lord (Lord Eustace Cecil) some good reason for the prominence given by the Commissioners to classics in military education. He thought that classical studies were of all others those least likely to be helpful to an officer in his profession. No doubt a commanding officer would, if possible, like to get his officers from a public school; but he believed that the 16 young gentlemen who so gallantly distinguished themselves on the river on Wednesday would be preferred to any 16 senior classics. If the Commission on Military Education wanted to get public-school men with some "go" in them, why not state so at once, and give a certain number of marks to games and athletic exorcises? In training for such sports the competitors had considerable trials to undergo; and they learnt to obey and command, which were the most important duties of a soldier.

CAPTAIN F. E. B. BEAUMONT

said, he wished to make a few remarks on; this subject, after 18 years' service in a scientific corps. He considered the gist of the Report of the Commission to be to give increased value to classics, and a decreased value to scientific education. The reason of this was that they wished to handicap private schools, and to give a certain amount of encouragement to public schools. In his opinion, it was a great mistake to mix up the question of private education with that of the education of the Army. We were living in an essentially progressive age, and many considerations which, some time ago, would have been entitled to great weight had now lost much of their force and efficacy. He regretted to say that his education in classics had been much neglected, two or three easy pages of Cæsar forming a passport at the time he entered the Academy at Woolwich; but in his professional career he had never found the want of further classical knowledge, whereas he had been distinctly conscious of deficiencies in mathematics and other branches of scientific instruction, and in modern languages, Objection was taken to the statement that the pluck of the British soldier was less relatively than it used to be; but such must necessarily be the case, for the pluck of the soldier remained the same, while science was advancing around him. He did not, however, endorse the opinion that the victories of the Prussian Army were mainly due to the intelligence of the troops, for he believed that the needle-gun had most to do with it; but this was only the same argument in another form; for the invention and manufacture of needle-guns was a thing wholly apart from the pluck of the soldier. We should be making a great mistake if we attached exaggerated importance to classical education, which affected social position, to the neglect of technical education, on a right understanding of which the professional success of officers depended.

MAJOR DICKSON

said, the natural modesty of the hon. and gallant Gentleman who had just sat down did not permit him to repel the attack made by the Mover of this Resolution (Sir John Lubbock) upon the corps of Royal Engineers, though it was plain that the history of the corps had been ransacked to discover any errors they had committed. The hon. Baronet had talked about the manufacture of bricks and the want of acquaintance with geology on the part of the Engineers. Had he ever taken a walk on the terrace of the Houses of Parliament, and made any reflection on the want of geological knowledge which it was possible for civilians to exhibit? Without going very deeply into the subject, there was another instance which might be adduced—the pillars of the Holborn Viaduct were already cracked. To throw all the blame upon military engineers, therefore, was not quite fair. It was suggested, too, that if Lord Raglan had possessed a knowledge of geology he would have chosen the north side of Sebastopol instead of the south. Lord Raglan would have been very glad to advance at once into Sebastopol; but as the French General would not allow this to be done, Lord Raglan had no course open to him but to make his celebrated flank inarch to Balaklava, without which he would not have possessed a base of operations. What had a knowledge of geology to do with that? As regarded the Infantry and Cavalry branches of the service with which he had been more intimately acquainted, he had been unable to write down all the subjects in which the hon. Baronet wished the officers to be instructed; but he was quite certain that if they wanted to learn them all officers would not enter the service till they were 30 or 40 years of age. These things might be carried much too far. Many qualifications were required in a soldier other than those which were purely intellectual. A soldier must be prompt, energetic, quick to see an opportunity and to turn it to account. If he were going into action and were compelled to make a choice between an officer possessing high intellectual attainments and one who was simply active and intelligent, he should undoubtedly prefer the latter. He had no hesitation in saying that it would be better to go into the hunting field for officers, or to take the elevens of a cricket match, rather than to select men whose minds were crammed with all the "ologies." Instead of increasing scientific education, the useless system of competitive examinations at Chelsea ought to be abolished. Young men before entering the service crammed themselves with knowledge, which they forgot in two or three weeks after they had joined their regiments. On the other hand, a number of fine young men, the best materials that officers could be made from, turned their backs upon the Army because they did not like to go to Chelsea to be badgered for five or six days by a lot of civilians entirely ignorant of military matters, and examined upon subjects which could never be of the least use to them in the profession they wished to enter.

MR. C. S. PARKER

said, that as a Member of the Commission, he thought it might be well for him to explain to the House from what point of view the Commissioners had approached this question. The Commissioners had by no means overlooked the great importance of physical qualifications, and they also felt, looking to the great attention paid to such matters in Continental Armies, that English officers ought not to be behindhand in scientific acquirements. He congratulated the House upon the manner in which this subject had been introduced by an hon. Member so well qualified by his personal attainments in science to speak with authority; but the Commissioners, he maintained, had approached the question from a different point of view from that taken by the Mover and Seconder of the Resolution. The Commissioners laid down the principle that for entrance into the Army nothing more should be required than the ordinary liberal education of the country. It was not necessary to take up the time of the House by discussing the number of marks assigned to each head of this examination, for it might be stated generally that a competent knowledge of any class of subjects usually taught at schools would suffice to pass a candidate for a direct Commission. Similarly, in the competitive examination for entrance into Woolwich, liberal education alone would be expected; and marks were assigned not in proportion to the professional or intrinsic importance of each subject, but in proportion to the value of such knowledge of it as candidates were found to bring from school. In the Prussian Army, no doubt, there was a higher standard of scientific knowledge; but that was because science entered largely into the general education of the country; and the right course in England would be first to remedy this defect in the teaching of our public and other schools before we required scientific knowledge from the candidates for admission to the military service. For his own part, he had always been an advocate for enlarging in this sense the curriculum of our schools, and as a Public School Commissioner he would be ready to support his hon. Colleague (Sir John Lubbock) in promoting such reform. He had also urged upon Oxford and the other University that they should bestow the endowments at their disposal more liberally for the encouragement of the general science education of the country. That was where reform should begin—at the schools and Universities, not in Army examinations. In Prussia, where nearly the whole population must pass through the Army, military examinations had a great effect on the liberal education of the country; but in England, with our small professional Army, military examiners must be content to follow, not to lead. The other course had been attempted, and with what result? Why, that boys intended for the Army were now generally taken from the public schools, and sent to "cramming" establishments, where they learnt much that was mischievous, and little that was useful. That was not the right way to teach science; and he hoped the recommendations now called in question would go far to put an end to it. An attack had been made on one of the Royal Commissioners, as if he had said of science generally that it was a mere effort of memory; but no one, he believed, would be more willing than the gallant Officer, whose words were quoted, to accept the definition of science given by the hon. Member for the University of Edinburgh (Dr. Lyon Playfair). What Sir Duncan Cameron referred to was the smattering of science learnt by rote from little manuals, such as might be seen at almost any bookseller's shop. Another portion of the question related to the studies that were pursued after entering places of military education, and here the principle of the Commissioners had been not to cram too many subjects into a short space of time. The evidence had shown that it was desirable to diminish the pressure and distraction arising from a multiplicity of studies, and thus to enable the students to devote more time to those which would be of most advantage to them in the course of their profession. These were the principles of reform on which the Commissioners insisted as important, and which he trusted would receive very general approval. As to points of detail, he would venture to remind the House that we had now a Director General of Military Education. The corresponding officer in Prussia was assisted by a Council, called the Supreme Board of Military Studies, which was not of a permanent character, but merely met from time to time to assist the Inspector General with their advice. He did not know how far such a plan might be approved by his right hon. Friend at the head of the War Office, but now that they had lost the other members of the Military Council, it did seem to him that the Director General of Military Education should not stand alone, but that he should have from time to time, as special questions might arise, some recognized, if not official, aid, from those who from their special knowledge were best entitled to advise. He would, in conclusion, remark that the more detailed recommendations of the Commission were not proposed in the spirit of the laws of the Medes and the Persians. On the contrary, they were strictly relative to the present state of liberal education in the country, and were intended to be modified or changed as time and occasion might demand.

MAJOR GENERAL SIR PERCY HERBERT

begged leave to differ from the hon. and gallant Officer opposite (Captain F. E. B. Beaumont), who had expressed his opinion that pluck and courage would not hereafter have the same value that they had at present in the British Army; for although pluck might be unequally divided between different armies, the distribution of education would be pretty even. He would, moreover, beg the House not to forget that the most important military actions in modern history had been determined by marching large bodies of troops against each other and delivering their fire at a distance of about 25 yards, and he was at a loss to conceive how on such occasions pluck and courage could be dispensed with. Another statement made was that the Report of the Royal Commission prejudiced the case of private schools as against public schools; but that, he apprehended, was not the case. What they had advocated was that officers of the Army should be allowed to enter from the public schools of the country, including in the definition of public schools not only the four or five aristocratic establishments now bearing that title, but any large and proprietary schools, without going through the cramming of tutors, and that proposal he trusted would be adopted by the Government.

MR. CARDWELL

Sir, before offering the few observations which I have to make upon this Motion, I may, perhaps, be permitted to add my congratulations, to those which have already been expressed, on the accession which this subject has received by the part which the hon. Baronet the Member for Maidstone (Sir John Lubbock) has taken in the discussion. I feel a confident hope that my hon. Friends the Mover and Seconder of the Resolution will not suspect me of having any desire to exclude or limit scientific instruction, or to view it with jealousy as compared with other education, for it happens that I have had the advantage of being associated at different times with each of them in the promotion of scientific studies. With regard to education in general, I entirely agree with the hon. and gallant Officer who has just spoken, and with others, that there is no kind of education which, will make up for the want of natural gifts. An old proverb tells us that "an ounce of mother wit is worth a pound of clergy," and the natural qualities of intellect and courage will always be the foundation of the distinguishing qualifications of the British soldier. The true principle is to get the best educated of our young men to enter the Army. You must not disparage classics for the purpose of elevating science, nor must you disparage science for the purpose of elevating classics; but you must have a varied education. The Army is a microcosm, and ought to contain every excellence the country can afford; whether it be scientific excellence or classical excellence, it ought to find its natural position; and our examiners ought to address themselves in the widest manner to all the education of the country, and ought, as far as possible, to select for the Army the foremost pupils in every school. The rule laid down in both France and Prussia is precisely that which I think the House will desire should be adopted in the British Army; for, with regard to the first examination in which the cadets are to be selected, there should be only one object—to get the young men who are best in general education. I entirely sympathize with those who praise the public schools. If they educate in one line of training let there be an examination that will bring the best young men they produce into the Army, and if there are other schools devoting themselves to giving a more scientific education, let there also be an examination which will select the best of their pupils also. Our main object is not education, but the selection of the best men for the Army, and those two objects may, I hope, be happily combined; the judicious pursuit of the one will be the judicious pursuit of the other. But now I may have to regard the subject from a point of view different from that taken by my hon. Friends, who have looked at this subject as it bears upon the general education of the country, and as regards its tendency to encourage that education or otherwise. The Commission have rather looked at how we can best conduct the examinations so as to avoid having a false education imposed upon the service, and in that object my hon. Friends entirely sympathize, for they desire true scientific education, and not that science which is derived from a handbook that may be bought at a low price, studied in a few weeks, rapidly committed to memory, and forgotten as soon as the examinations are over. The gallant officer who was charged with having spoken of science as "a parrot cry" is one of the most distinguished men in the Army, and I do not understand that he spoke of science in its true sense, but that he rather alluded to that science which palms itself off for the amomentary purpose of a temporary exmination. I will now state what are the objects I shall have in view with regard to this question, and what is the course that I have pursued and that I intend to pursue. In the first place, I have, as was recommended by the Commission, appointed as Director of Education that gallant officer General Napier, with whom my hon. Friends have expressed so much satisfaction. It is my intention to associate with him from time to time, for the consideration of any special questions that may arise, such persons as may be best calculated to assist our deliberations as to the various modes in which it may be desirable to conduct examinations in order to obtain those who have the greatest amount of real useful knowledge, and, above all, to consult the Civil Service Commissioners from time to time. I think the House will admit it to be a decided improvement that the first examinations should be conducted by the Civil Service Commissioners, instead of by special Commissioners, both on account of their great experience, and also because it is desirable that the young men who are to enter the Army should not be taught at that early period of their career to look to a separate and distinct course of examination, but that they should rather be taught to share with their countrymen in general that instruction and that training which are given to those who are destined for other professions. I trust that we shall in this manner be able to secure the objects which my hon. Friends have in view—namely, that of including the largest amount of training from all sources of knowledge—and that we shall also meet the desire of the Commissioners, which is to exclude fictitious acquirements. As to the number of marks, I wish my hon. Friends to distinctly understand that I consider we are not bound in the slightest degree to adhere to the details laid down by the Report; on the contrary, I think that the Commission, having given us a point from which to start, believed they had completed the task assigned to them. Our object is merely to test the efficiency of the education, and that subject will constantly be a matter for observation on the part of those who conduct our military education. I hope my hon. Friends are satisfied with the principles on which we intend to proceed, and if they are satisfied I trust they will permit us to go into Committee of Supply.

SIR JOHN LUBBOCK

said that, after the explanation of the right hon. Gentleman, he would withdraw his Motion.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.