HC Deb 14 May 1868 vol 192 cc322-4

Bill presented.

On Motion, "That the Bill be now read the first time,"—(Mr. Gladstone,)

LORD HENRY THYNNE

said: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read by the Clerk at the Table.

MR. SPEAKER

When a proposal of a similar kind was made two Sessions ago, it was agreed by the House that the reading of a Bill by the Clerk at the Table was an exploded practice—a practice which had not been followed for many years; and that circumstance was considered to be sufficiently binding upon the House in the matter.

COLONEL BROWNLOW KNOX

said, this was a question of great and vital importance. The Speaker had said it was unusual to do so, except on extraordinary occasions. This was an extraordinary occasion, and he was in order in pressing the Motion that the Clerk at the Table should read the Bill. As only a week was to be allowed before the second reading, Members bad a right to know what it was, and he claimed the right to have the Bill read.

MR. SPEAKER

I have already stated that the House itself has declared the practice to be exploded; but, if an hon. Member makes a Motion to the effect that the Bill be read by the Clerk at the Table, and it is seconded, it will then be for the House to dispose of that Motion.

The Motion, not being seconded, was not put.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Motion agreed to. Bill, "to prevent, for a limited time, new appointments in the Church of Ireland, and to restrain, for the same period, in certain respects, the proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for Ireland," presented, and read the first time.

MR. GLADSTONE

said, he proposed to take the second reading of the Bill on Friday, the 22nd. Feeling fully sensitive of the courtesy that had been shown him by hon. Members on the Ministerial side of the House, he wished to inform them that it was not his wish, nor the wish of those with whom he had been in communication, to make any unfair use of that disposition to bring forward hurriedly the further consideration of this Bill. But how stood the matter? The substance of the Bill was in complete correspondence with the second Resolution, which had been before the House for a lengthened period. There were no proposals of a political character in it, nor one involving constitutional privileges, nor any elaborate amplification of detail which differed materially from the second Resolution. That being so, and the Bill being very short and perfectly well understood, and embracing no novel principle, and as it would have been introduced in usual course but for the respect shown to the Royal Prerogative on Thursday of last week, giving fully a fortnight or fifteen days before the day he now proposed for its second reading, he hoped the House would acquit him of any undue haste in the matter.

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, the right hon. Member for South Lancashire appeared to have forgotten his position as Leader of the Opposition, and to have assumed the functions of a Cabinet Minister without being in Office or properly a confidential Adviser of the Crown. The right hon. Gentleman had no right to be acquainted with the substance of the Reply from the Crown until it was read at the table; other Members of the House had no such previous information. The right hon. Member had carried four Resolutions touching the Irish Church, and might have based his Bill on all or any of them. The Bill was based on the second Resolution only, and he had said enough to show that hon. Members of the House might well feel doubt as to the extent and the purport of the Bill. Under the circumstances, the right hon. Gentleman ought not to refuse the usual ten days or a fortnight for the consideration of the measure by the Members of the House and their constituents.

Bill ordered to be read a second time upon Friday next, and to be printed. [Bill 117.]