MR. GLADSTONEThe Motion, Sir, that I propose to make on the subject of the Irish Church will be in the form of three "Resolutions to be moved in Committee on Acts relating to the Established Church in Ireland, and the terms of the three Resolutions will be these—
Resolved,—I give notice that I will take the liberty of asking the Government, either to-day or to-morrow, as may best suit them, Whether it would be compatible with their view of the state of Public Business to afford any assistance for the discussion of this Motion, and, possibly, the right hon. Gentleman the First Minister of the Crown will now be pleased to say what view he takes of that matter? In case it should not be in the power of the right hon. Gentleman to afford such assistance, I should then feel it my duty to endeavour to bring it on the first day on which I could regularly propose it, and I believe that would be Friday next, and I should further give notice of it as an Amendment on going into Committee of Supply.
- "1. That, in the opinion of this House, it is necessary that the Established Church of Ireland should cease to exist as an Establishment, due regard being had to all personal interests and to all individual rights of property."
- "2. That, subject to the foregoing considerations, it is expedient to prevent the creation of new personal interests by the exercise of any public patronage, and to confine the operations of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland to objects of immediate necessity, or involving individual rights, pending the final decision of Parliament."
- "3. That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, humbly to pray that, with a view to the purposes aforesaid, tier Majesty would be graciously pleased to place at the disposal of Parliament,
33 Her interest in the temporalities of the Archbishoprics, Bishoprics, and other Ecclesiastical Dignities and Benefices in Ireland, and in the custody thereof."
§ MR. DISRAELISir, I do not know that it is quite regular that I should give the required information to the House; but I apprehend that it is for their convenience that I should do so, and, with their indulgence, I will do so at once. I require no time at all to consider the course which we ought to take; and I need not tell the House that where Notices of this character are given by one's opponents, one's natural feeling is to meet them as soon as we are permitted by the state of the Public Business and other considerations respecting the convenience of the House. I have no hesitation in saying that the state of Public Business, as is well known to the House, is not very satisfactory at present; but I will take the House into counsel. I feel that with their assistance we might be able to do all that is necessary and yet meet the wishes and convenience of the right hon. Gentleman. It is of primary importance that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War should take a Vote for men to-night. If the House will grant them he will be able to bring in the Mutiny Bill, and then there would be fair time, without interfering with the Motion of the right hon. Gentleman, to carry it through; and Gentlemen who wished to enter into any discussion upon the Mutiny Bill would have a fair opportunity when it goes into Committee. I hope, therefore, that the House will give my right hon. Friend the Vote to-night; and in that case I think I shall be able to make a fair and reasonable arrangement with the right hon. Gentleman. The day 34 that I should propose would be this day week. But on this day week the Irish Reform Bill is placed for a second reading. Now it has been to me an object of great importance that the second reading should take place, and that the question should be advanced with a view of ensuring—with other arrangements in respect of other Bills—the dissolution of Parliament at the beginning of the next year. Any great delay with the Irish Reform Bill would be an obstacle to that result. The Government, however, have considered the subject, and though, if the Irish Reform Bill be not read a second time on Monday, it cannot be proceeded with before the holidays, still we should be able to obtain that result in this manner. I assume that the House has consented to the principle of Commissioners examining the boundaries of boroughs in Ireland. I apprehend that principle was virtually acceded to by the passing of the Bill of last year; and in that case I would follow the example of 1831 and 1832, and at once appoint a Royal Commission to examine the boundaries of the Irish boroughs. They would proceed with their labours, and by that means we should obtain such progress that the dissolution would not be interfered with. Although I propose a Royal Commission for the boundaries of the Irish boroughs, I should still not issue it without previously bringing before the House the names of the three Commissioners I propose, and without their sanction I certainly should not advise Her Majesty to insert their names. At the same time, the names will be such as I have no doubt would recommend themselves to the unanimous approval of the House. Well then, Sir, if we can only get this Vote to night, and come to this arrangement about the Boundary Commissioners, we shall be able to give Monday to the right hon. Gentleman, without so far interfering with the progress of business as to prevent those arrangements for the dissolution which we have had in contemplation. Well then, Sir, there is only one other consideration that we must not lose sight of, and that is—that fair notice shall be given to the House on a subject which I have no hesitation in saying is one of paramount importance; a longer notice, under ordinary circumstances, should be given in order that the House should have an opportunity of considering it, and the country should be made acquainted with it. But looking at the convenience 35 of the House, which I think ought always to be considered, I shall give Monday to the right hon. Gentleman, and, if the debate terminates on the following Friday, I shall propose then that we adjourn for the holidays; because after a struggle of that kind there would, I think, be no use entering upon the next week for business. But, of course, I reserve to myself the right of taking such a course as the state of business may render necessary; and with this explanation, which I hope will prove satisfactory, we shall be prepared to meet the Motion of the right hon. Gentleman on Monday.
MR. GLADSTONEAs far as I am concerned, I thank the right hon. Gentleman. The arrangement that he proposes [...]perfectly satisfactory. I presume that if he gets the Vote for the men to-night he will go forward with the Mutiny Bill at once, so as to dispose of the Committee on the Bill during the present week.
§ MR. DISRAELIThat is my present intention.
MR. GLADSTONEWith regard to what has been said on the question of the Irish Borough Boundaries, we cannot expect that every gentleman will surrender every opinion he may entertain on that subject; but I confess it appears to me that the right hon. Gentleman is acting quite within the discretion in his province and that of the Government if he thinks fit to appoint a Commission upon the authority of the Executive, and presents it as part of his plan. I do not conceive that any practical objection can arise to the course that he proposes.