HC Deb 09 March 1866 vol 181 cc1837-40
MR. BLAKE

said, he wished to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland a Question of which he had given notice, but before putting the Question he wished to make a few remarks. The most opposite beliefs on the subject of trawl fishing existed in Ireland, and this was not to be wondered at, seeing that Mr. Commissioner Barry expressed an opinion on the subject differing from that contained in the Report of the Sea Fisheries Commission. With the great facilities the Commission had of obtaining the most reliable information, one could have little hesitation in relying on their Report, even although it was opposed to the opinion of Mr. Commissioner Barry. The condition of the Irish Fisheries was at present anything but prosperous. It appeared that in 1830, through the stimulus of bounties and loans, the number of vessels of all classes engaged in the Irish Fisheries was 13,119, and the number of men and boys employed 64,771. In 1836, when the fisheries were in a state of depression, caused through withdrawal of bounties, the number of boats employed was 10,761, and the number of men and boys 54,119. The fisheries soon recovered from this depressed condition, and in 1845 gave employment to 19,883 vessels and 93,073 men and boys. After the famine in 1848 there were only 15,932 vessels, with 70,011 hands, and in 1865 the number had still further decreased, there then being engaged in the Irish fisheries only 9,300 vessels and 40,946 hands. The Commissioners, in their Report, stated in the following words the reasons which had caused this great falling off in the Irish fisheries:— The great decline in the number of fishermen we believe to be wholly due to the effects of the famine of 1848, and the subsequent emigration. It might have been anticipated" that during the famine the fishermen at least would be secure from its ill effects, and would not only have plenty of food themselves, but would be the means of averting starvation from others. But such was not the case; it was found that the people would not live wholly on fish, nor would they out of the small means remaining to them buy fish in preference to meal or potatoes; the fishermen, therefore, suffered not only from the loss of their own crops of potatoes, but from want of "market for their fish. They shared to the full extent in the sufferings of the famine, and as most of them became physically incapable of going to sea, it was frequently found that men were starving while fish were in abundance on the coast. In many parts of Ireland the fishing population has not yet recovered from the depression and ruin caused by the famine; and the subsequent emigration, by taking off the youngest and ablest of the fishermen, and leaving behind the old, the feeble, and the incompetent, has still further operated, not only in reducing the numbers, but in lowering the average condition of those who remain behind. If some of the restrictions which were at present imposed in trawling were removed, he believed that the Irish fisheries would rapidly regain their prosperity. This question was one of Imperial interest. At a period when meat was every day increasing in price, the Government ought to let no opportunity pass of encouraging the fisheries. In 1845, when there was the greatest number both of boats and persons employed, a general impression prevailed that if the fisheries of Ireland were properly developed they would be capable of giving employment to three times the number of fisher men, and that would be equal to ten times the number now employed. In that way, one-tenth instead of one-fiftieth of the population would be engaged in fishing, and there would be a large increase in the supply of food to the English as well as the Irish markets. The necessary stimulus could be given without the smallest cost to the Exchequer. They had only to remove Borne of the present restrictions, and small companies and individual capitalists would be ready to engage in these enterprizes. At certain seasons it was quite impossible, from the tempestuous nature of the coasts, that boats could proceed to the deep sea fishing-grounds; but if some of the restrictions on trawling were removed, companies would provide a double set of boats, one class for deep-sea fishing, and the other for in-shore fishing, so that when the weather would not permit the men to go out to the deep sea they could employ themselves in bay and coast fishing. Since the Report of the Royal Commissioners had been published several companies had been formed, and were only waiting to hear that the Report would be carried into effect to begin operations. One important branch of the Irish fisheries—the oyster fishery—had greatly declined. Nowhere was there so good an opportunity to prosecute the oyster fisheries as in Ireland, and nowhere was so little done. It was his intention at a later period of the Session, if he had the opportunity, to bring the subject of the Irish fisheries before the House; but he trusted that the necessity for his doing so would be obviated by the Government taking the matter into its own hands. It was to be hoped that during the Easter recess the Attorney General for Ireland would take into his consideration the propriety of introducing a measure for giving effect in that country to the recommendation of the Royal Commissioners. He begged to ask, Whether it is the intention of the Irish Government to adopt measures, during the present Session, to give effect in Ireland to the recommendation of the Royal Commissioners appointed in 1863"to inquire into the Sea Fisheries of the United Kingdom, with regard to the removal of restrictions on fishing, and encouraging the culture of Oysters?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAWSON)

said, that the Report to which the hon. Member had referred was laid on the table of the House only very recently. The Report was not confined to Ireland, but applied to every part of the United Kingdom. The question was a very large one, and as the recommendations of the Commissioners were of a very important and, as far as his knowledge went, very novel character, they required very serious deliberation. It was hardly to be expected, therefore, that the Irish Government should be prepared to take any measures for giving effect to them. With respect to what the hon. Member had said as to the state of the Irish fisheries, he was not aware of any legal restrictions which prevented Irish capitalists from engaging in the pursuit of fishing. There were facilities for establishing oyster beds in Ireland which did not even yet exist in England. As to there not being so large a proportion of the Irish people employed in fishing as the hon. Member thought there ought to be, that was scarcely a matter which the Government could alter. Many boats went from England to fish on the coast of Ireland; and if the Irish fishermen had boats of the same tonnage and capacity, and furnished with the same implements as were furnished to the English crews, there could be no reason why they should not carry on that branch of industry near their own shores. Much faith was not to be placed in any attempts on the part of the State to stimulate and foster the fisheries of the country by bounties or similar means. They had been already tried without having the desired effect. The matter must be left to the growth of private enterprize; and all that the Government could do was to take care that no legal obstacles, or undue restrictions, should check the development of those pursuits.