[BILL 145.] SECOND READING. (Hansard, 18 May 1865)

§ LORD CLARENCE PAGET
said, this Bill bad been framed in accordance with the recommendations of a Committee of the House which sat last year. That Committee was of opinion that the great works proposed in our dockyards and basins should be executed as rapidly as possible, the evidence of engineers having satisfied its Members that such a course was very desirable in the case of works exposed to sea risks. They reported that a great saving of expense would result from diminishing as much as practicable the time occupied in completing the works. The Committee had recommended that the Government should be empowered to give contracts for the whole of those works, to be spread over a certain number of years. This Bill provided that the Admiralty should have power to give contracts for the works in two of the dockyards—Portsmouth and Chatham. In the case of the former the maximum amount of the contract was to be £700,000, and the maximum sum to be made payable in any twelve months on account of the contract £250,000. In the case of Chatham, the maximum amount of the contract was to be £650,000, and the maximum sum payable in any twelve months £200,000. The maximum duration of each of the contracts was to be five years. The Admiralty did not propose to take powers to raise money by this Bill, but merely to grant contracts very similar to the mail and packet contracts subject to an annual vote. A copy of every contract entered into under the Bill was to be laid before both Houses of Parliament within thirty days after the contract was made, if Parliament was sitting, and, if not, within thirty days after the next meeting of Parliament. With respect to the works which the Admiralty proposed to execute at Cork, they were not included in the Bill, because the Department found that they should be able to execute them within five years by convict labour. He begged to move the second reading of the Bill.

§ SIR JAMES ELPHINSTONE
said, he was happy to support the Motion, but in order to facilitate operations under the 541 Bill, he should propose an alteration which would provide that the expenses of defraying the works contemplated by this Act be raised on Government Annuities terminable in thirty years in the same way as the expenses of the fortifications at Portsmouth were ordered to be raised by the Act of 1863. It was most important that the works at the docks and dockyards should be completed as rapidly as possible. The loss which accrued to the country annually from the present state of things was considerable. He should, therefore, move that the alteration which he proposed should be added to the Bill either now or in Committee, whichever course might be the correct one.

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that he did not think the alteration could be submitted to the House, and he was glad of it. The proposal of the hon. Baronet to provide for these works by loan was a method of proceeding which ought not to be attempted upon any light grounds, or except in cases of absolute necessity; it would constitute a precedent perfectly contagious, destructive to the control of the House of Commons over the public expenditure, and be certain to lead to financial embarrassment and confusion. That was upon the merits. But, in point of form, he believed it was not competent for the hon. Baronet even in Committee to propose that this money be raised by loan.

§ SIR JOHN HAY
said, he was exceedingly pleased with the course adopted by the Government upon this occasion, as by contracting for the execution of larger proportions of public works, they would considerably diminish the expenditure of the country, and secure the services of a higher class of contractors than were generally employed. It was only a pity that the Admiralty had not been advised to include within the scope of the Bill other works which were equally necessary. He perceived that though the works at Portsmouth were to cost about a million and a half, only £700,000 were to be spent in the next five and a half years. It therefore appeared that the works would take ten years in completion. A similar delay was also observable in connection with the works at Chatham. He thought, therefore, that it would have been better if it had been proposed to finish the works even more speedily.

§ MR. CHILDERS
said, that the powers taken in the Bill related only to contract, and if the hon. Baronet (Sir John Hay) 542 would refer to the papers which had been laid upon the table relating to dockyard extension, especially in connection with Portsmouth and Chatham, he would find that a large portion of the work was to be carried out by moans of convict labour. There was also a good deal of dredging to be done. At Portsmouth the hon. Baronet would see that it was proposed to expend £260,000 during the present year, £312,000 next year, and £250,000 the year after. He believed that expenditure to be as great as even the hon. Baronet could expect in carrying out works of this kind.