HC Deb 27 February 1865 vol 177 cc830-2
MR. KNIGHT

moved, according to notice, that there be laid before the House— Returns showing the names of the 821 Agricultural Parishes stated as having decreased in houses and increased in population between 1851 and 1861, and the counties in which such parishes are situated: Showing the number of Inhabitants and Inhabited Houses in each of the said parishes in each Census from 1801 to 1861: And, showing what Manufactures or Mines, if any, are carried on or worked in each of the said parishes if the Census contains such information. He considered such a Return would be of great service in considering a very important measure proposed to be carried.

Mr. C. P. VILLIERS

said, the first part of the Return moved for by the hon. Gentleman had reference to a statement which he (Mr. Villiers) had recently made in moving for the appointment of a Committee to consider the condition of the irremovable poor, as to the decrease in the houses and increase of the population of 821 agricultural parishes. That statement was made not upon the authority of the Census, but from a report upon which he could place the utmost reliance. As to the latter part of the Motion, there was no particular faculty in the Poor Law Board for furnishing information any more than existed in any other public Department, and it would be most inconvenient for the Poor Law Board to have such an amount of work imposed upon it as the hon. Gentleman proposed by his Motion. Return ordered, "showing the names of the 821 Agricultural Parishes stated as having decreased in houses and increased in population between 1851 and 1861, and the counties in which such parishes are situated."—(Mr.Knight.)

MR. KNIGHT

then moved for the production of the concluding portion of the Returns. He was very sorry that the right hon. Gentleman had refused the Return when so important a measure was being brought forward; and, in fact, the refusal at such a time appeared rather suspicious, and made one doubt that if produced the Returns would bear out the inferences drawn from them. When he was on the Irremovable Poor Committee the right hon. Gentleman was the Chairman, and many of his witnesses stated that cottages had been pulled down in certain close parishes. He insisted upon the names of those parishes being given, in which the Committee supported him, and he was then enabled to give evidence which upset the statement of the right hon. Gentleman's witnesses altogether. The right hon. Gentleman was exceedingly vexed by their testimony, and refused to have the evidence printed; but on application being made to him, the Speaker, with his usual courtesy, ordered it to be printed.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That there be laid before this House, Returns showing the number of Inhabitants and Inhabited Houses in each of the 821 Agricultural Parishes stated as having decreased in houses and increased in population between 1851 and 1861, in each Census from 1801 to 1861: And, showing what Manufactures or Mines, if any, are carried on or worked in each of the said parishes, if the Census contains such information."—(Mr. Knight.)

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

observed, that he had not called any witnesses on the occasion referred to by the hon. Gentleman, whose version of what had occurred in the Committee room was not correct. His great objection to producing the Returns was on the ground of the expense.

MR. KNIGHT

said, he should divide the House upon the Motion.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, that if the hon. Gentleman would postpone his Motion for a day or two he should make inquiries as to whether the figures he wished for were in the Poor Law Office.

MR. KNIGHT

consented, under these circumstances, to postpone his Motion.

Debate adjourned till To-morrow.

House adjourned at a quarter after Twelve o'clock.