[BILL 148.] CONSIDERATION. (Hansard, 22 June 1863)

§ MR. BASS
, in moving that the provisional order with respect to the construction of a pier at Rhyl be reinstated in the Bill, said, that he had no interest whatever in the matter, but he had received representations from a source on which he had every reliance that the House had been influenced by mis-statements when this 1280 question was last under discussion. A Petition against the Bill had been signed by 160 persons at Rhyl, but many who had signed were neither ratepayers nor owners of property, and one person who called himself "Master of the Rolls," was a baker. On the other hand, the Petition in favour of the Bill was signed by nearly 300 persons, who were amongst the largest owners of property in the place. The pier was opposed by three or four landed proprietors and a powerful railway interest, and no doubt these were conflicting interests. But he called upon the House to support the unanimous decision of the Committee by whom this measure had been considered. It was said that the opponents of the Bill had had no opportunity of appearing; but though it was held that they had no locus standi against the preamble, they were invited to appear against the clause, and refused to do so.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, the proper course would be for the hon. Gentleman to move the re-committal of the Bill in order to reinsert the provisional order relating to Rhyl.

§ MR. BASS
accordingly moved that the Bill be re-committed.

§ MR. HUMBERSTON
objected to the Motion. The matter had been discussed a few nights since in a very full House, and no good reason had been assigned for now seeking to reverse the decision then come to. He did not concur in the opinion that the general feeling of the town of Rhyl was in favour of the pier, as the particular site that had been selected was most objectionable.

§ MR. PAULL
supported the Motion. He had no personal acquaintance with the town of Rhyl; but having been the author of the Bill, he naturally felt an interest in seeing that its benefits were extended to all localities which desired them. He did not think that the House were taken by surprise the other evening when the provisional order was rejected, but he thought some of the arguments that were then used were of a suspicious character. The promoters of the Bill had complied with all the requirements of the Act, and had given full notice of their intentions. The Board of Trade had been accused of neglecting its functions, but he did not think that charge was justified. Captain Sulivan, to whom the question was referred, had reported that the spot selected for the pier was the best that could be found on the whole estuary.

§ LORD RICHMAND GROSVENOR
said, that he had, as Member for Flintshire, been at considerable pains to ascertain how the inhabitants of Rhyl felt with reference to this Bill, and he found they were decidedly and strongly opposed to it. This pier would be of no use to them. Of thirty Commissioners sixteen had signed the Petition against the Bill.

MR. SERJEANT PIGOTT
could not understand why the House should throw discredit on the Pier and Harbour Act of 1861, and on the finding of the Select Committee which had sat on the merits of this Bill. After hearing the parties the Committee decided that the preamble was proved, and their decision should be final, unless it was intended to impeach their conduct on the ground of irregularity or unfairness.

§ COLONEL ROWLEY
hoped the House would not consent to reverse the decision to which it came on Monday. The inhabitants of Rhyl were generally adverse to this scheme, the carrying-out of which would be injurious to the place.

§ MR. LIDDELL
thought the effect of the vote of the other evening was that the House refused to confirm the provisional order in regard to Rhyl, and that therefore the order then and there ceased to exist. He doubted whether, in point of form, the House was in a position now to re-commit the Bill for the purpose contemplated by the hon. Member for Derby (Mr. Bass).

§ MR. H. ROBERTSON
said, there had been no inquiry into the merits of the case by the Committee. The proposed pier interfered with an important part of the estuary of the Voryd, the only navigable harbour on the coast of Carnarvonshire.

§ MR. WYLD
said, that Captain Sulivan, of the Board of Trade, gave evidence before the Committee, that the pier, so far from obstructing, would promote the navigation of the river. The House ought to bear in mind that the Committee came to their decision after hearing evidence on the subject, and it was not usual for the House to reverse the decision of a Committee without very good cause for such a proceeding.

§ MR. MILNER GIBSON
thought the House was occupied with this subject more than its importance deserved; but he should support the Motion for the re-committal of the Bill. The position of this Provisional Order was that of a pri- 1282 vate Bill which had passed through all its stages, and which it was proposed to throw out by a decision of the House. It was of importance to understand that under this Provisional Order nothing could be done which affected the accession to any navigation. They had no compulsory power of taking land; everything was to be done by consent. The only powers conferred was that of taking tolls, in case a pier was erected, from those using it. He thought it better not to have Select Committees at all, if their decisions were to be reversed by the House. It was a case of competition with an existing pier.

§ MR BRIGHT
said, that the opponents of the Provisional Order could come before the House of Lords, where, no doubt, their case would receive ample attention. The case was so extremely clear that he was surprised hon. Gentlemen should oppose the reinstatement of the Provisional Order regarding Rhyl.

§ MR. BASS
again called attention to the position in which they would be placed by reinstating the Provisional Order in regard to Rhyl. The people of Rhyl were opposed to the pier, and their case was not brought before the Committee. He should oppose the reinstatement of Rhyl in the schedule.