MR. DIGBY SEYMOURsaid, he wished to call attention to the unsatisfactory position of the Civil Assistants employed on the Ordnance Survey, with reference to Promotion and Pay, and to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, Whether there is any prospect of the same principle of classification being adopted in their case which has been attended with such good results in other Departments of the Public Service? He complained of the treatment received by this meritorious class of officers and their inferior position as compared with other Governmeut employés, when, in point of fact, they rendered the most valuable services. He denied that there would be any difficulty in carrying out a system of classification, and pointed to the success which had attended the classification of valuators in the Valuation Office of Ireland.
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTONsaid, the subject had already been brought under the notice of the War Office when Lord Herbert was Secretary of State for War, and the proposal of the hon, and learned Member was rejected. Some correspondence took place between the noble Lord and the hon. Member, which was unfortunately of a private nature, and could not be produced. Lord Herbert's grounds of objection were, that the organization of the Ordnance Survey Office being of a totally different character to any other office, the same system was by no means applicable to them; and that the adoption of a system of classification would not only lead to considerably-increased expenditure, but would also tend to render inefficient that service which was at present well performed. Ample assistance could be obtained under the existing system, and it would be a waste of public money to increase the expense. The men employed were paid in proportion to the value of the services rendered, and that was the proper principle to follow. The cost of the changes which the hon. and learned Member advocated would amount to £1,000,000 for the whole survey of the United Kingdom. The organization of the department was worthy of the admiration of the country, and foreign governments had sent persons to this country with the view of imitating it.
§ THE LORD MAYOR (Mr. Alderman ROSE)said, the men did their work, which was admitted to be admirably executed, 1218 under a feeling that they were ground down, because they were without hope of rising, no matter what zeal and ability they might display, and were altogether dependent on the caprice of the officer over them. It was a strange thing that it should be impossible to classify a department in which the wages varied from 9d. to 19s. a day, and the work from the commonest labourer's work to the highest scientific work that could be executed. Again, it often happened that the men were put under the command of persons whom they had instructed, and the effect of that was to produce a feeling of despair. There ought to be a classification, which would enable men to rise in position in proportion to their abilities. There was also a grievance in the case of these clerks which ought to be remedied. The rate of pay was not half that which was given by civil engineers.
MR. MOFFATTobserved, that in the case of the Irish survey there was a system of classification, and it had worked well. He could not help remarking that it was absurd to suppose that the adoption of the same system in England would involve the cost of £1,000,000.
§ SIR MORTON PETOsaid, he thought that the Government proceeded on a vicious principle when, in engaging their servants, they allowed the question of a retiring pension to come under consideration. The Government should, like all great engineering firms, classify fairly the people they employed, and pay them adequately, so that they might be able to lay something by for an evil day.
§ CAPTAIN CARNEGIEsaid, that whenever any non-combatants had anything to complain of, they heard of it immediately. The men of the engineer force were not generally in such a good position as these civil servants, and he hoped their case would be taken first into consideration.
§ SIR EDWARD GROGANsaid, he thought there was great hardship in the case of those employed in the offices, and hoped, from what had been said that night in that House, the noble Lord would think it worth while to reconsider the question, as it was deserving of great consideration.