HC Deb 27 May 1862 vol 167 cc71-5

Order for Committee read.

House in Committee.

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 (Commissioners to be appointed by Secretary of State).

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, he proposed to amend the clause by a provision under which each Commissioner was to receive a salary not exceeding £350 per annum.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. CAIRD

said, as the duties to be intrusted to those Commissioners were of a most important character, it was desirable to have the names of the gentlemen to be appointed Commissioners publicly announced.

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, it would be impossible to accede to the suggestion.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6 (Duties of Commissioners).

MR. W. LESLIE

said, he objected to that portion of the clause which empowered the Commissioners to define the boundaries between the river and the sea, and between an estuary and the sea. Such a power was too great to intrust to any body of men.

THE LORD ADVOCATE

stated, that the Bill of the last Session proposed that the boundaries should be determined by a judicial process; but fishery proprietors having represented to the Government that that would be too expensive a process, and that the Commissioners ought to fix the boundaries, the Government had adopted their suggestion. The boundaries would be fixed, not arbitrarily, but upon scientific principles.

MR. MURE

said, he should oppose the clause, which would interfere with vested rights to an extent never proposed by any previous measure.

MR. BLACKBURN

said, he thought that intelligent Commissioners would be far more competent than a jury to fix the boundaries.

MR. E. ELLICE (Kilmarnock)

said, the unanimous opinion of several fishery proprietors with whom he had communicated was in favour of the clause.

MR. LESLIE

said, he would agree to withdraw the Amendment, but he must at the same time protest against handing over to any persons the irresponsible powers conferred on the Commissioners.

MR. WEMYSS

said, he hoped the hon. Member would not withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

SIR JOHN HAY

said, he proposed to move, with reference to the weekly close-time, the insertion in Clause 6, after the word "district," of the words, "and shall not commence later than six p.m. on Saturday, nor end before six a.m. on Monday."

MR. D. ROBERTSON

said, that he had given notice of an Amendment on the same point, and the two might be discussed together. He proposed to introduce the following words:—"That the thirty-six hours of weekly close-time proposed by the Bill shall be from two o'clock p.m. on Saturday till two o'clock a.m. on the following Monday morning."

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, that last year the weekly close-time was fixed as the hon. Baronet proposed. But there was a very strong opinion that the periods were too arbitrary. He was not ready to depart from the provision of the Bill, whereby it was left to the Commissioners to say—taking into consideration the peculiarities of each river—when the period should commence and when it should terminate.

MR. R. HODGSON

said, he thought it would be better to adopt universally the hours from six p.m. on Saturday to six a.m. on Monday, those marking the usual working hours.

LORD NAAS

said, he thought it very inexpedient to close the fisheries at a late hour of the night. The effect would be that a great deal of poaching would go on. He recommended the extension of the close-time till six o'clock in the morning.

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, he did not propose to close the time for fishing at two o'clock in the morning. He intended to leave that question open to the Commissioners for each particular river.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 7 (Annual Close-time).

MR. WEMYSS

proposed to alter the annual close-time from 180 days to 150 days. By so doing they would assimilate the Act in that respect to the Irish Fisheries Act.

Amendment negatived.

MR. W. LESLIE

proposed to leave out the words "thirty-six hours," and insert the words, "from the hour of six o'clock on Saturday night till six o'clock on the Monday morning."

Amendment proposed, In line 11, to leave out "for thirty-six hours," and insert "from the hour of six of the clock on Saturday night to the hour of six of the clock on Monday morning.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided: — Ayes 4; Noes 56: Majority 52.

Words inserted.

Clause, as amended, put, and agreed to.

Clauses 8 to 15, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 16 (Election of District Boards).

MR. D. ROBERTSON

moved to strike out the words "or if such fishery be not valued on the valuation roll of half a mile of frontage to the river with the right of salmon fishing."

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, he thought it would be hard that such persons should be deprived of their right.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 17 to 29 agreed to.

Clause 30 (Certain Provisions of Act 24 & 25 Vict., c. 109, applied to Solway Firth).

MR. W. EWART

said, that some of his constituents had exercised the right of fishing for 300 years on the northern, shores of Solway Firth, which the clause would deprive them of. Unless he obtained a guarantee that they would continue in the same position after the passing of the Bill as at present, he should oppose the clause.

THE LORD ADVOCATE

said, chartered rights, or rights which rested on immemorial usage, were saved. It was quite out of the question to have one law applicable to one side of the Solway and another law to the other side.

MR. E. P. BOUVERIE

contended that it was unjust to deprive these people of their property in the fishery without giving compensation.

Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes 32; Noes 14: Majority 18.

Clause agreed to; as were the remaining Clauses.

THE LORD ADVOCATE

then proposed an additional clause, providing that the River Tay should continue to be governed by the special Act, provided that the close-hours from twelve on Saturday night to twelve on Monday morning were adhered to.

MR. D. ROBERTSON

said, he did not sec why the hours for the Tay should he different from the rest of Scotland.

Clause agreed to.

House resumed.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered on Monday next, and to he printed [Bill 139].

House adjourned at half after Two o'Clock.