§ MR. BAILLIE COCHRANEsaid, he rose to call attention to the state of the Record Office. A very erroneous impression had been conveyed by certain statements in a recent debate on the subject. Hon, Members had been led to believe that 1478 the Record Office was as admirable and perfect as any one could desire, and that the Master of the Rolls thought he had accommodation for more papers than he possessed. The truth was, that the Master of the Rolls entertained an opinion diametrically opposite to that attributed to him. The Report on the subject had been made by the Master of the Rolls, dated the 6th December, 1861, in which, after enumerating all the expedients and makeshifts he had attempted to make in order to take charge of the important records which had been sent to him, he said all these temporary expedients and makeshifts, had, however, been overthrown by the intended demolition of the State Paper Office. The transfer of so many records had necessitated many alterations which were very detrimental to the documents, inconvenient to the public, and burdensome to the officers. Yet they were told that this was an admirable office. The houses in Chancery Lane were not fit for the reception of such important records as were placed there. They were all dark, ill-ventilated, rickety, damp, unprotected against fire, and perpetually under repair. The document kept there were packed in racks from floor to ceiling; and there was great want of space. It had been stated that the Master of the Rolls had represented that he had so much space that he would take charge of the documents, which it had been intended should be placed in the Victoria Tower. What occurred was this:—when it was determined that the State Paper Office should be pulled down, and that the documents it contained should be placed in the Victoria Tower—to get to the upper room of which it was necessary to mount 350 steps—the Master of the Rolls said, rather than the documents should be placed there, whatever inconvenience he was put to, he would take charge of them. It was then proposed they should be put in the cellars of Whitehall. He had himself visited the Record Office, and what did he find? There was an interference on the part of the Board of Works. They put up an order that no papers or books should be placed near the outer walls lest they should give way. Notices were also posted up to show where ladders were to be found in case of fire. Those important records were deposited, many of them in the cellars, and some even in the stables, a portion of the latter being hoarded off for that purpose. That was the admirable way in which the public works were con- 1479 ducted; yet, from the representations that had been made, the impression left on the House of Commons was that the accommodation provided was perfect and satisfactory; and that in the face of a Report from the Master of the Rolls of the most opposite character. He had therefore felt it to be his duty to bring the matter before the House, thinking it highly injudicious that through any instrumentality impressions should be conveyed to that House which were not strictly consistent with the facts of the case.
§ MR. CAVENDISH BENTINCKsaid, he wished to know why the Record Office had not been proceeded with? In 1850 an estimate was given in, and the building, which was a very ugly one, was commenced. One wing was erected, but owing to the Crimean war the building had never been completed. During that war a portion of the War Office, containing records, was wanted for other purposes, and the records were sent to the present Master of the Rolls for custody. Thus he received 160 tons from the War Office; and lately he had thrown on his hands, to save them from the Victoria Tower, the documents which were formerly in the State Paper Office. No proper accommodation, however, was available for the preservation of the valuable historical documents of the country; and if any accident occurred, the loss would be irreparable. The Master of the Rolls had done more than any of his predecessors for the purpose of securing their safe custody and making them properly accessible to the public. He did not think a due tribute of acknowledgment had been paid to him in that respect. It was well known that shortly after he entered on his office he had commenced a series of calendars of historical documents in his custody. These were now being printed. The records were arranged in an admirable manner, and rendered perfectly accessible to searchers, vast numbers of whom consulted them. During the last year there had been no fewer than 12,435 searches for historical documents, and for these no fees were charged. There was only one room in which the literary searchers could be accommodated, and that was only eighteen feet by twelve feet. It might fairly be supposed that the building was so had that the Government were ashamed to go on with it. If a picture of it were produced, he did not think the House would approve it. He 1480 was sure it could not meet with the sanction of the noble Viscount at the head of the Government; because it combined all the inconveniences resulting from the attempt in these days to imitate a had style of Gothic and mediaeval architecture. He understood that the Master of the Rolls objected strongly to the Victoria Tower, where, owing to their being no fireplace, and no means of making one, it was impossible that any of the legal and historical documents in his custody could be properly kept or consulted.
MR. COWPERsaid, he believed they owed the very eloquent appeal of the hon. Member for Bridport to a certain ambiguity in the word "office." When he (Mr. Cowper) had said that he thought the Record Office was perfect, he of course meant to refer to the public building of which the hon. Member was speaking; and notwithstanding what had been said by the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite, he believed the Record repository to be as perfect a building for its purpose as could be erected. No doubt the temporary arrangement by which a number of papers were deposited in hired houses, until the building intended for their reception was provided, was not the most convenient one. It was by no means a new practice to place records in buildings which were not fire-proof. Indeed, the new Record Office, erected by the Government, was the only fire-proof repository of the kind that had been built of late years. Domesday Book and other most interesting records had been kept for centuries at the Chapter-house, Westminster, in a building of which the late Mr. Braidwood said that, owing to the positions of the interior woodwork, fire, if once commenced, would with difficulty be extinguished. The records kept in the hired houses in Chancery Lane and Rolls Yard, although useful, were not of a very valuable character, consisting for the most part of muster-books of old ships, paybooks from the army, logbooks, and the like. The papers before the House, however, showed that plans existed by which the preservation of all these documents would be provided for within no very long space of time. It was said that there was no continuity of management in the office of Public Works, because the head of the department went out with every change of Government. Certainly that remark did not hold good of the proceedings connected with the 1481 Record Office. They began in 1847, when the Earl of Carlisle adopted a plan which, in its main features, resembled the one that had since been executed. In 1850 the Duke of Somerset proposed a large and comprehensive scheme, by which the whole of the records of England for the next hundred years might be provided for. That; scheme consisted of three parts, one of which was to have been executed in 1850, and the other two left till future occasions. The first part had been actually carried out, and was represented by the building now under discussion. It had originally been thought that the building would suffice for the Records of the next fifty, years; but Mr. Pennethorne's view on that point, which was less sanguine, and extended only to ten years, though it had not proved quite accurate, was nearer the mark. So that with respect to the complaint of the hon. Member for Bridport as to these documents being in hired houses, there was no fault resting on the Board of Works, for they had a plan of an eastern wing to be added to the present building, which would amply provide not only for all the documents spoken of by the hon. Gentleman, but for all those likely to come into the Muster of the Rolls' hands for the next ten years. The ground was obtained, and everything ready for commencing the work, except the money. The Government wished, before incurring expense, to be satisfied that it was absolutely necessary. There was a large mass of papers sent in from the War Office and other departments, which required arrangement. These having been subjected to careful examination by a Commission appointed by the Treasury, it was found that one-third of them might be destroyed, and 220 tons were reduced to pulp. Thus the expense of keeping useless documents would be saved. Another question that must be considered was whether any new building; should be fitted up as expensively as the present building, which was all iron and stone, except the roof, and the most elaborate precautions were adopted to guard against depredations. In considering the question of any new building, it was necessary to know whether the documents to be placed in them were of such a character as to require such expensive fittings. Ancient historical records might offer temptation, but few persons would care to purloin a navy muster-roll of 1807. Those were among the causes that had led to the 1482 delay; but the matter was under consideration of the Government. The House would hardly be inclined to take up the complaint that the Government had been too ready to propose a large Vote for an expensive building. When it was said that the hire of houses was a more expensive plan than the construction of a new building, he would inform the hon. Gentleman that the estimate for the new wing was £92,000, and therefore it was difficult to see how far economy would be served by erecting a new wing without an absolute necessity; but, if such necessity should be shown to exist, the Government would not shrink from proposing a Vote to Parliament, in order that the records might be kept in a proper and safe condition. He did not agree with the criticisms which had been passed on the building. The gravamen of the complaint appeared to be that the style was Gothic; it must be remembered that the stories were necessarily low, the rooms small, and requiring much light. These requirements necessitated a different elevation from what they might otherwise have had, but it was, in his opinion, as well planned a building as he had ever seen. He quite agreed with the hon. and learned Member opposite (Mr. C. Bentinck), that the greatest credit was due to the Master of the Rolls for the manner in which he had exercised his office of keeper of the records. The records were now concentrated in one position, instead of being scattered over many places, and were capable of being digested with greater facility by the able men who were now engaged upon the duty. The Master of the Rolls, no doubt, desired that his department should be as perfect as possible, but the financial interests of the country required caution in making any outlay; but, should a necessity be proved to exist, there would be no delay in asking Parliament to grant a sum of money for the purpose.