§ MR. ROEBUCK, Sir, I rise to make a formal Motion that the House at its rising do adjourn till Monday. I do so for the purpose of making certain observations, and, as I think it possible those observations may provoke some remarks, I do so for the purpose of reserving to myself the right of reply. Sir, I suppose I may assume that the great majority of this House is very anxious the question of Parliamentary Reform should be settled. That, I think, is not a very wild proposition, or one unsupported by facts. But it appears to me that the course the House is now invited to pursue will, if adopted, lead to the exactly opposite result. Now, with the permission of the House, I will address myself to the noble Lord the Member for the City of London; he has put upon the books of the House a Resolution which, if carried, will, though not formally, yet in reality, negative the Bill introduced by the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I think one consequence of this will be that you may not have a chance of passing anything like a Reform Bill this year, because we are told to expect that the right hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial Bench will thereupon dissolve this House. [Cries of "No!"] Hon. Gentlemen say "No, no!" but they are sure in then hearts that what they so deny will be done, and if it is done it is quite clear that but question of a Reform of Parliament will be deferred till the meeting of the now House, when we may have a second edition of the present Bill.
§ MR. E. P. BOUVERIEsaid, he rose to 331 order. He wished to know whether it was competent to the hon. and learned Gentleman, on a Motion of adjournment, to discuss a question that stood on the paper as a subject for debate on a future day?
§ MR. SPEAKERsaid, it would be out of order then to discuss a subject fixed for a future day; but he understood that the hon. and learned Member proposed to address a question to the noble Lord the Member for London, on a notice the noble Lord had placed on the paper.
§ MR. ROEBUCKI hope the House will grant me its indulgence. I am not often in the habit of troubling it at any length, and what I have to say will soon be brought to a close. When I was so kindly interrupted I was about to observe that by the course the noble Lord would persuade the House to pursue the question of Reform is very likely to be deferred indefinitely. I would therefore ask the noble Lord to adopt a precedent of his own. During the last Session of Parliament the right hon. Gentleman opposite brought in a Bill to reorganize the Government of India. That Bill did not meet any favourable reception in this House. The noble Lord, then, with that chivalry that belongs to him, stepped in to aid the right hon. Gentlemen opposite, and proposed that the House should proceed by way of Resolution, that the Bill brought in by the Government should be dropped, and that the House should come to certain Resolutions on which a new Bill should be introduced. The noble Lord, having regard to the interests of India—and thereby for the interest of England also—proposed that course. I now ask the noble Lord to consider that the interests of England are bound up with a new Reform Bill; I ask him whether he cannot borrow an example from his own principle, and enlarge the Amendment he has proposed into a series of Resolutions which may be the foundation of a new and better Bill. I put this question to the noble Lord, and I am sure he will be kind enough to give me an answer. [Lord J. RUSSELL dissented.] I now ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, if the course I have suggested is pursued, Her Majesty's Government will be prepared to forego the present Bill and bring in another framed in accordance with the Resolutions adopted by the House. Having put these two questions, one to the noble Lord, the other to the right hon. Gentleman opposite, I would address myself to the hon. Gentlemen behind me, particularly the hon. Member for Birmingham 332 (Mr. Bright), who, I see, does not approve my suggestion. But I ask those hon. Gentlemen to consider what would be the result if the proposition of the noble Lord is carried. That proposition can only be carried by an alliance between the noble Lord and the right hon. Gentlemen who now sit on the Opposition benches. To what would that lead? Last year the House dismissed those right hon. Gentlemen; and we are now called upon, by a side wind, to do something that will re-establish them in office. Now I, for one, am not prepared for that. I will go further than that; I do most earnestly request those hon. Gentlemen who took part in the proceedings of last year to consider well what they are about now; for it is quite clear that the proposition of the noble Lord has been put on the paper with a full understanding with certain parties on the Opposition bench. We know well what will happen, and I ask hon. Gentlemen and I ask the country if they are prepared at this time, with the terrible state of affairs existing abroad, if they are ready to place the destinies of the country again in the hands from which they took them last year. Any dislocation of the Government of England at this moment may lead to terrible calamities abroad. A dissolution of the House of Commons may lead to instantaneous war! Let mo explain how. Europe does not understand England. It will believe from a dissolution of this House that all parties are dislocated; that we are all at sixes and sevens; that there is no strength in English public opinion. It is English opinion that now keeps the world at peace. But let the world believe that English opinion is as nothing, and there will be confusion, riot, and bloodshed throughout the whole of Europe tomorrow. Sir, it is with these considerations strongly oppressing me that I ask the noble Lord not to pursue the course he has proposed. On his shoulders rest the great destinies of this country now, and by the course he is adopting he may bring upon us incalculable calamities. Therefore I say, think carefully what you are about; let no considerations of party, no considerations of self, no considerations of paltry ambition interfere and lead you to pursue a course that may be to the detriment of the interests of your country. I know well that the statements I have made will he disagreeable to certain hon. Gentlemen on that bench. By adopting the course I have suggested they may avert great calamities from England, though it may bring on their shoulders the 333 great calamity of keeping them still in Opposition. But that, Sir, is an object I at once declare I have very much at heart. I am unwilling to detain the House longer. I only ask the noble Lord to adopt the principle he acted on last year, and move certain Resolutions on which a Reform Bill may be framed, so that the Bill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer may be entirely dropped.
§ MR. COXsaid, he rose to express his obligation to the hon. and learned Gentleman for having put the question which he (Mr. Cox) had given notice of his intention to put to the right hon. Gentleman. Knowing the hon. and learned Gentleman's standing in that House, he was free to admit that he was glad the hon. and learned Gentleman had done so, and also that he had addressed another question to the noble Lord the Member for London. Like the hon. and learned Member, he was not at all satisfied with the position in which the question of Reform stood in that House. If, on the second reading of the Government Bill, it were met with a direct negative, he should have no hesitation in the vote he should give, for he should go into the lobby and vote against it; but when he found the noble Lord placing an Amendment upon the paper for which the hon. Gentlemen sitting below the gangway—he meant the Radical party—would feel themselves bound to vote. ["No no!"] Well, then, he would speak for himself, and say that he, as one of the Radical party, would feel bound to vote for it; and that it was placing aim in a position of very great difficulty, because the noble Lord's Amendment did not go far enough to satisfy him or those who called themselves Radicals in that House. The Amendment of the noble Lord stated that the Bill of the Government was not satisfactory, because it did not provide for a sufficient extension of the suffrage in boroughs and cities. ["Order, order!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERsaid, he was compelled to intimate to the hon. Member that he was transgressing the rules of the House by proceeding to discuss the terms and substance of the noble Lord's Resolution.
§ MR. COXsaid, he was sorry he was out of order. He would, however, endeavour to steer clear of the difficulty. At ail events, a notice had been given of some Amendment, which, as he was told, was to effect—[Cries of "Order!"] He appealed to the House. He only asked for the same indulgence which was extended to 334 the hon. and learned Member for Sheffield and he thought, as it was he who gave notice of his intention to put this question he had some slight claim. Suppose at Amendment was moved on the second reading of this Bill which was to have the effect, as he was told it was to have, of changing the sides of the House—transfer ring them to the opposite side of the House and bringing hon. Gentlemen opposite to this side, he wanted to know what the noble Lord meant to do with the subject of the ballot, because it would be impossible for the Radical party to assist the noble Lord to obtain a place in the Government if he would not, at all events, assure them that the ballot must be granted. He thought the time had come when men like himself who belonged to the Radical party, should tell the Whigs that they must not expect them to act together for the purpose of giving place to the Whigs, and then, when place had been obtained for them, hon. Gentlemen on the other side were to be used for the purpose of preventing any Reform being obtained. It was well known that the Liberal party in that House were in favour of the ballot, and were they to give their votes to place the Whigs it power, in order that the Whigs might join with the other third of the House to prevent their having the ballot? He, for one, must tell the noble Lord that it would never do for him to attempt to lead the Liberal party unless he made up his mind to give them the ballot. He remembered reading a speech two or three years age made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, ill which he said if fifty sincere and honest men in the House made up their minds to have the ballot they might get it. He begged to assure the noble Lord that if there were not fifty men there was a number approaching to it who were prepared to take the course foreshadowed by the hon. Member for Birmingham. They meant to take every means in their power to get the vote by ballot. he would conclude by asking Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer the question of which he had given notice, whether, as all parties express a desire that a Reform Bill should pass, it would not be better to proceed by way of Resolution, in order to frame a Bill to carry such desire into effect?