PAPERS MOVED FOR. (Hansard, 13 August 1859)

§ LORD ELCHO
, in moving for copies of any Reports relative to the instruction of Volunteers in the Government Musketry-School at Hythe, said he believed those reports would show that the volunteers who had placed themselves under instruction had applied themselves with a diligence and ability beyond all praise, and that they had distinguished themselves more than the officers of the regular army who had received instruction in the same school. He was desirous also to obtain, before the House separated for the recess, a clear statement from the Secretary for War of what were the views and intentions of the Government with respect to volunteers. He regretted that the noble Lord at the head of the Government had spoken of these corps with ridicule, and had talked about "the rifle corps fever" as an epidemic. He would ask if it really were the earnest wish of the Government to have volunteer rifle corps formed, otherwise those who had joined them were wasting their time. Did the Government look to the formation of rifle corps as an important and permanent element of national defence? If they did, and made a patriotic appeal to the country in their favour, he was certain it would be most heartily responded to. On the other hand, if they did not, and had acted not in earnest, but only to gratify the wishes of persons, and allow them like children to play at soldiers, let them say so to the volunteers, and the corps would be at once abandoned.

§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERT
said, he was somewhat at a loss to understand on what ground his noble Friend entertained doubts as to the intentions of the Government on the subject. The noble Lord had said that his noble Friend at the 1423 head of the Government had, in the course of debate casually used some such expression as "the rifle corps fever;" but, although such an expression might have fallen from his noble Friend, he could only say that he (Viscount Palmerston) was the first to sanction the formation of these volunteer corps, at a time when there was no very decided popular feeling in their favour. He thought that fact was a much stronger indication of his noble Friend's opinions than any casual expression which he might have used in debate. So far as the Government generally were concerned, he must say that if they wished to discourage the formation of volunteer corps they had been singularly unfortunate, for at this moment there were upwards of ninety corps in process of formation, and proposals had been made to Lords-lieutenant for the establishment of a considerable number of additional corps, with regard to which no official communications had been made to the Government. These corps would, no doubt, soon constitute a very numerous force; but if they were regarded as substitutes for any portion of the regular army he thought a great mistake would be made. He had himself given them every encouragement and facility in his power, because he was satisfied the gentlemen who formed those corps did not themselves wish to be put on the footing of substitutes for the army; but great advantages might undoubtedly result from the existence of auxiliary corps of this description, consisting of persons who went through a regular drill, and made themselves masters of the weapons with which they were to be armed. He would readily produce the Report of General Hay, and as it was extremely honourable to the volunteers, he would beg to read it to the House. General Hay said:— I have the honour to forward, for the information of his Royal Highness the General Commanding-in-Chief, the enclosed return of the results of the performance in shooting of the noblemen and gentlemen of the rifle volunteer corps, who have just completed a course of instruction at this establishment, and to report, in reference to the method pursued, that the morning was devoted to carrying out a detail of daily work, as per annexed statement, so modified as to meet the requirements of a volunteer company, the members of which it is presumed will not be able to devote more than two hours and a-half daily to the musketry drill and practice. The desire, however, on the part of these volunteers to become fully acquainted with every detail connected with the system and the method of working it was so great that the whole day was spent in acquiring this information. Proficiency in the several prac- 1424 tices being always measured by a figure, I am enabled to draw a comparison of the shooting of these volunteers with that of parties of officers (averaging from 40 to 45) in the last three courses. The result is in favour of the volunteers, the highest figure of the former being 4694, of the latter 47'07 points. I have confined the comparison to the shooting of the officers, as from their superior intelligence they always (when subjected to the same amount of preliminary drill) beat the men. When it is considered that these volunteers were composed of noblemen and gentlemen most of whom had never fired with a rifle before, and not any at a longer distance than about 200 or 300 yards, and when the short period of six days allotted to the performance of the preliminary drills is taken into account, it not only affords the most convincing proof of the energy and intelligence brought to bear on the work in which these volunteers were engaged, but at the same time it points clearly to the great benefit the country will derive from enlisting the services of the educated classes of the population in the movement which is now in progress for the enrolment of volunteers for rifle companies and corps. I do not hesitate to say that if the training of these volunteers is regulated by a well detailed system which will insure a preliminary preparation before practice is allowed to take place, that in a few years a most important reserve (comprising as it will a class of persons who never enter the regular army or militia, but who from their education and intelligence are eminently qualified to make the very best 'marksmen') will be at all times available, and afford a most valuable and permanent addition to our national defences. The interest taken by the noblemen and gentlemen herein referred to in the practice convinces me that rifle shooting, if properly conducted, cannot fail to prove henceforth one of the most interesting of our national amusements. I feel it right to observe, however, that unless rifle training is conducted on a proper (and I would venture to recommend a uniform) system, utter failure will ensue. We shall have rifle corps in name, but not in reality. He thought the warning of the gallant officer was not without its value; but he could only say that the Government were glad to have an opportunity of expressing their gratitude for the exertions which were being made on this subject, and he was satisfied, from communications he had had from many gentlemen who were engaged in the formation of these corps, that there was no intention on their part of merely playing at soldiering, but that they were willing, by drill and practice, to render themselves efficient for the defence of the country in case of need.

§ LORD ELCHO
expressed the satisfaction with which he had heard the reply of his right hon. Friend. He had in his hand a letter from General Hay, in which the writer gave the opinion that very little ordinary drill was requisite for volunteers.

MR. H. BERKELEY
thanked the noble Lord for bringing that question forward, 1425 and also declared himself satisfied with the reply of the Secretary of State for War. It would be extremely agreeable to his constituents, who had taken a leading part in that movement to read the account of that debate. For himself lie had no doubt that if, in addition to the regular army, we had 100,000 men, well instructed in the use of the rifle, that was the sort of thing that would prevent panics in the country. The country was indebted to the press for its advocacy of such a force, in urging the establishment of which the press was not amenable to the charge of doing that which was offensive to Foreign Governments. What was it to us what any other Government might say or think? It was for us to adopt the measures required for our protection, and which tended to check the sinking of the funds and the rising of the panics.

§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTON
I am sure that nothing could have been further from my mind than to have made use of any expression which could be construed into any disparagement of the Volunteer Rifle and Artillery Corps. No such intention existed in my mind, and I am profoundly sensible of the great importance of a serious movement of the sort such as had been referred to. In some cases, probably, the movement is not a very serious one, and there are some instances where there are persons who would think it very convenient to meet together to have a little rifle shooting, with power to withdraw from the corps at anytime with fourteen days' notice. So far from being indisposed to, or undervaluing the movement, I can only say that when I was in office before, I took steps—I am afraid not very successful ones—to induce the formation of artillery corps in different seaport towns, I gave the sanction of the Government to the formation of the Victoria Rifles in London, and of a rifle corps in the south of Devon. I think if the country is really impressed, as it ought to be, with a feeling of the great importance of having some organization of this sort as a permanent system of national defence—not in substitution of other forces, but in addition to them—and if those who enter into these corps will enter with a full intention to remain, and be available when any occasion may unfortunately occur, I am sure that the Government will feel it their duty to give them every possible encouragement. I can only repeat the opinion I have formerly expressed of the great advantage of 1426 the Artillery Corps on the Coast of England, and especially at those seaport towns where much valuable property may be exposed to attack by the small forces of an enemy's cruisers.

§ CAPTAIN LEICESTER VERNON
ex-pressed his opinion that there was no country in the world so well adapted for the action of rifle corps as England, owing to it being so much enclosed and divided into different farms. Those who joined our volunteer corps, however, could not turn these advantages to account unless they had arms, and it appeared that the Government were to supply no more than 25 per cent of the weapons required. He was therefore anxious to know from the Secretary of State for War what market was likely to supply the requisite quantity of arms?

§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERT
said, the Government were obtaining arms not only from their own factory at Enfield, but from Liege, Birmingham, and every place capable of furnishing them.

§ CAPTAIN LEICESTER VERNON
said, there was a belief abroad that the Liege and Birmingham markets would not afford a sufficient supply, and it was most desirable that, when the riflemen had been raised they should have arms put into their hands.