§ MR. H. HERBERT,observing that he had not quite understood the answers which had been given either in that House—or in another place—to the questions which had been put to the Government with reference to the disembodiment of the Irish militia, begged to ask the Under Secretary for War whether the Government contemplated their immediate disembodiment? There was a rumour that these regiments were to be disembodied in the months of June and July. Now, he believed that it was the unanimous opinion of those who were connected with Ireland or knew anything about the country, that the period of the year between the middle of May and the middle of July, was a period in which the greatest possible difficulty would be experienced in the absorption of so much labour as would thus be thrown into the market in that part of the kingdom. The 265 noble Lord at the head of the Government had expressed himself on the previous day in the most flattering manner with respect to the militia, and of course by implication of the Irish militia. He (Mr. Herbert) believed that his observations respecting the want of employment would not apply to the English militia, because he was informed that at that period of the year a considerable amount of labour was required in England. The noble Lord had last night paid a just tribute to the merits of the Irish militia; but he hoped that his noble Friend would excuse him if he reminded him of a very homely, but at the same time a very true proverb, namely, that "fair words butter no parsnips," and even if they could have that effect, he believed that the Irish militia, if hastily disembodied, would experience a very great difficulty, considering the present state of the labour market, in obtaining that useful vegetable. He was informed by a statement which had reached him that day, that the employment of a tenth of the weavers in the north of Ireland had been taken away by the power-looms, as the manufacturers were making arrangements to put up a great many more looms, they not having contemplated so early a termination of the war. He fully subscribed to the doctrine that the militia were embodied for the service of the country in a time of war, and that no Government would be justified in employing them long after the conclusion of peace. He thought, however, that it would be an act of great unfairness to call for the services of a number of men, and to dismiss them at a season when they were unable to return to those employments from which, for the most part, they were taken. Such a proceeding would inflict a great and grievous hardship upon a body of men who, it was admitted upon all hands, had rendered the most essential service to the country. He also wished to call the attention of the Government to the case of the subaltern officers in the Irish militia regiments, who were circumstanced very differently from their brother officers in this country. The Irish militia had only been embodied eighteen months, and consequently the officers' pay was not sufficient to cover the money actually out of pocket for their outfit and expenses, as would be seen on referring to the actual figures. They had lost those other employments which they had before they joined the regiments, and unless some consideration was shown them they would be actually out of pocket by 266 their loyalty. As a mere question of policy he thought this worthy of consideration, and that the House ought not to let a matter of a few months' additional pay, now that the war had been brought so rapidly to a successful termination, to stand in the way of doing an act of justice to those officers. The class to which he alluded particularly was that of subalterns, surgeons, and paymasters. If the Government failed to do them justice or were guilty of a mean stinginess on this occasion, they might perhaps look in vain for them when their services were again required.
COLONEL DUNNEsaid, that before the hon. Gentleman answered the hon. Member's question, there were one or two points to which he wished to draw his attention. He would, however, first suggest that if the commanding officers of regiments were instructed to allow the men to retire as employment offered, it would have the effect of gradually diminishing the force without causing serious inconvenience. Of course, now that the war had been concluded, it was impossible to keep up the militia; but he thought the case of the officers a peculiarly hard one. Formerly, the House would recollect, every officer of the militia was obliged to possess a qualification, which qualification was removed at the commencement of the war, and the consequence was that a large number of officers whose circumstances were not so good, and whose pay was of consequence to them, were induced to give their services. They had no resources but what they had derived from their employment, and they naturally enough asked, now that they were to be disembodied, that they should not be out of pocket. The pay of a militia ensign was, he believed, about £95 a year; his outfit cost him £70, and he was obliged to live in mess the same way as the officers in the line. He thought that this class of officers deserved the consideration of the Government. The remuneration ought not to be extravagant, but, at all events, some should be given to them. In his view it was of the highest importance to keep the militia staff in an efficient state, otherwise they might just as well save the £23,000 or £24,000 a year that it cost the country. The whole question of militia ought now to be taken into consideration, and proper means adopted for securing that efficiency. With regard to the honorary colonels of militia, if these officers were abolished in the disembodying 267 of the militia, he did not see how the business would go on at all. Then, with regard to the stores—the counties ought not to be put to the expense of finding room for the stores, and he hoped the Government would find room in some of the barracks for them. The question of the clothing of the men was also one deserving of attention. It was no disgrace to them to say that at the time they entered the service they had very little to call their own; and, although after one year's service the clothing was given up to them, he thought it would hardly be fit for much. He thought that the Government were bound to allow the men some kind of clothing before they quitted the service, and he submitted this with the other points to which he had called the attention of the hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for War.
§ COLONEL GILPINsaid, that he was very much surprised that the paymasters were left out of the list of officers to whom it was proposed to give some additional pay. They had performed the most important services, and were taken from their professional duties for that purpose. They ought, therefore, to be placed in the same position as the others. The speech of the noble Lord last night, and its reception by the House, was a proof that something ought to be done for the militia; and he was, therefore, justified in asking what compensation, if any, would be given, on disembodiment, to the staff officers, subalterns, non-commissioned officers, and privates of militia?
§ MR. FREDERICK PEELsaid, that, in answer to the question put by his hon. Friend behind him (Mr. H. Herbert), he could only state what he said the other evening—namely, that the militia of Scotland and England would be dealt with in the same manner as the Irish militia. He was not before aware of the distinction between the two countries at the present moment with respect to employment, and, therefore, what had been said on that subject was not without weight. No one could be more anxious than the Members of the Government that the militia should return to their employments at a time when a fair chance of work was afforded to them. Of course all that he could engage to do was to take care that the subject should have the best attention of his noble Friend at the head of the War Department. It would he satisfactory to hon. Gentlemen to know that it was intended to place the paymasters 268 in the same category as the other officers referred to. The continuance of half-pay generally had reference to the time during which the militia were embodied. In this case they had only been embodied eighteen months, and it was intended to continue the half-pay for three months. The suggestions thrown out by his hon. and gallant Friend opposite (Colonel Dunne) should have the best attention of the Government.