HC Deb 02 August 1854 vol 135 cc1175-82

Order for Committee read.

House in Committee.

(1.) 1,040 additional men, Royal Artillery.

CAPTAIN LEICESTER VERNON

said, he rose for the purpose of directing attention to the recent appointment of Sir Hew Ross to the office of Lieutenant General of the Ordnance, over the head of his senior officer, Sir John Burgoyne. He felt it to be his duty, as one of a corps over which Sir John Burgoyne presided, to bring this subject under the consideration of the Committee. He did this with no feeling of personal hostility to Sir Hew Ross, it referred to military discipline alone, and his object was to ascertain why, in this case, the rules of the service had been departed from, and a junior officer been placed in command of a senior officer, contrary to the custom of the service, and to the terms of Her Majesty's regulations. He was aware that the Crown, in the exercise of its prerogative, had power to make any such appointment, but he trusted he might be permitted to inquire why, at such a time, at the commencement of a great war, so large a deviation from the regulations of the Army should have been advised, a deviation affecting injuriously an officer of high rank and long standing? It would be in the recollection of the Committee that, at the outset of the war, Sir John Burgoyne was despatched on a special mission to the East to examine and report upon the seat of war. The Committee might not be aware that, in his position as Inspector General of Fortifications, he could in no way be expected to undertake such a duty; nevertheless he volunteered his services. How those services were performed and appreciated his superior could state. As long as he continued so employed, the Master General of the Ordnance, Lord Raglan, who had been appointed to command the British forces in the East, remained in England, receiving the information transmitted by Sir John Burgoyne. When he returned Lord Raglan took his departure. Now, the absence of the Master General from his office necessitated the revival of the Lieutenant Generalship of the Ordnance—a strictly military position; and a few days previously to the return of Sir John Burgoyne his junior officer, Sir Hew Ross, was appointed Lieutenant General of the Ordinance, thus placing him in immediate command of the Inspector General of Fortifications. The two offices were closely and intimately connected. In the absence of the Master General, the Lieutenant General of Ordnance was in daily communication with the Inspector General of Fortifications, and thus Sir John Burgoyne had daily the mortification of being commanded by, and of receiving the orders of, an officer of inferior rank. When he said an officer of inferior rank, he did not mean inferior in departmental, professional position, or in military merit; he meant merely in rank in the Army. Now, for a superior officer to be under the command of an inferior officer was contrary to the custom and usage of the service, and could not fail to be detrimental to good discipline. It was understood that his Grace the Duke of Newcastle, the Secretary for the War Department, had said that the reason Sir John Burgoyne was not appointed Lieutenant General of the Ordnance was, that it was desirable to keep him free, so that his valuable services might be available for the East—a most reasonable arrangement. Now, however, it was said that he could not be sent to the East, because his valuable services were so much required at home. That he (Captain Vernon) could readily believe; but was it reasonable or just that this officer's great abilities should thus be made to cut two ways—and in both ways against himself? Was it reasonable or just that, for the good of the service, he should be placed in a position not recognised by the service—that of a superior officer commanded by an inferior officer? It was not for him to give an opinion of Sir John Burgoyne's qualifications—that officer had a world-wide reputation. His honours were gained by the sword. His Star of the Bath was obtained when that decoration proclaimed eminent services in the field. The orders he wore did not more adorn his merit, than by his merit they were adorned. That merit was recognised in this kingdom, in France, and in the East, the quarter where last he was employed. In justice, then, to that merit, to a service extending over more than half a century, and in justice to the corps of Royal Engineers, which was proud to have Sir John Burgoyne at its head, and which felt a slight to him as a wound to itself, he asked for such an explanation of the appointment as would vindicate Sir John Burgoyne and the authorities.

MR. MONSELL

said, he trusted he need not assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that the Government had not intended to cast any slur upon Sir John Burgoyne. It was impossible that any one could imagine that they had intended to do otherwise than to pay him that high respect which was due to his distinguished services. But really in this case the arrangement had been made entirely by Lord Raglan before his departure, and the Government had very justly considered that Lord Raglan was the proper person to decide who should fill the office of Lieutenant General of the Ordnance during his absence. Lord Raglan was the last person in the world to do an act of injustice to any man, least of all to Sir John Burgoyne; and he was sure, therefore, that the Committee would feel that the Crown had done nothing improper in the exercise of its prerogative.

MR. MACARTNEY

said, that those who had been acquainted with Sir John Burgoyne in Ireland deeply felt the slur which had been cast upon him, and he regretted to find that it had been the act of Lord Raglan.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said he was certain that his hon. Friend Mr. Monsell) had not intended to throw upon Lord Raglan the responsibility of this appointment, which was the act of the Government. His hon. Friend had referred to Lord Raglan, not as the person who was entitled to make the appointment, but as the person to whom the Government would look for advice, and the appointment was not the act of Lord Raglan, but of the Government, who were solely responsible for it. He would venture, with great respect, to intimate that he doubted whether much advantage arose from desultory discussions of this nature relating to an appointment of such importance. This was an act which had been done by the Crown in the exercise of its prerogative in reference to an office of very high class; the feelings of the persons who were the subjects of discussion were deeply interested in any matter of this kind; and, although he had not the slightest doubt of the friendly feelings towards Sir John Burgoyne with which the hon. Gentleman who last spoke had addressed the Committee, he much questioned whether observations of the kind the hon. Gentleman had made tended to improve the position of Sir John Burgoyne in the face of his countrymen. This act had been done in conformity with the wishes and advice of Lord Raglan, and as Lord Raglan was at a distance from the country, engaged in the discharge of most arduous duties, it was well for them to be cautious with respect to what fell from them on the subject in desultory discussion. If the prerogative of the Crown had been misused, the misuse was of so serious a nature that it ought to be made the subject of a distinct Motion, and of a formal, not of an accidental, discussion; but the prerogative had been used after a full consideration of all the circumstances of the case, and of the peculiar aptitude of Sir John Burgoyne for the most important office which he at present held. The Government would have been guilty alike of blindness and of ingratitude if they had come to any resolution, except under a sense of the distinguished merits of the excellent officer who had been spoken of by the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Captain Vernon) in terms which his great merits fully justified.

CAPTAIN LAFFAN

said, he trusted that the Committee would not think him presumptuous if he ventured to say a few words upon this subject, notwithstanding what had just fallen from the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. When the appointment of the present Lieutenant General of the Ordnance was first announced, very great surprise was felt, not only among the officers of the Royal Engineers, but throughout military circles generally, that so distinguished an officer as Sir John Burgoyne should have been placed under the orders of one junior to him. Upon that occasion he (Captain Laffan) had placed a notice upon the paper of the House announcing his intention to ask for an explanation, for he felt that, without an explanation, the appointment of an officer junior to Sir John Burgoyne to command the Ordnance corps in the absence of Lord Raglan would appear to be a slur upon Sir John Burgoyne's reputation, whereas it was most probable that the Government had in no way intended any such slight, but had acted upon reasons which, if they could be made public without inconvenience to the service, might redound to the credit both of the Government and of the gallant officer who had suffered this apparent slight. Influenced by these feelings, he had sought an interview with the noble Duke the War Minister, and laid before his Grace the reasons which induced him to seek for an explanation of the appointment, and expressed a hope that his Grace might be willing and might be able, without detriment to the public service, to cause such explanations to be given as would relieve the minds of the officers of a numerous and distinguished corps from the painful impression which would otherwise prevail that they had been slighted and injured by the injustice done to their chief. His Grace was pleased to say that the explanation was easy—that the apparent slight put upon Sir John Burgoyne was really, when rightly understood, the highest compliment the Govern-could pay him, and that the arrangement had been made in this way-that at first it had been intended that Sir John Burgoyne should have gone out as second in command of the army in Turkey, and that it was only on Sir John Burgoyne's return from his tour of inspection of the countries which were about to become the theatre of war that the Government had altered their intention; and his Grace was pleased to add that he was not unwilling himself to take all the responsibility of having detained Sir John Burgoyne in England; for that Sir John Burgoyne from his great experience, his intimate acquaintance with the Ordnance service, and the local knowledge of the East which he had just gained, was a person to whom the Government could at all times look with confidence to advise them in any contingencies which might arise. His Grace added that, while it had become necessary to detain Sir John Burgoyne for the present in England, it was still inexpedient to place him at the head of the Ordnance service, as the Ordnance Department would be called upon to render great services during the war, and it was desirable, therefore, that the direction of that department should be disturbed as little and as seldom as possible; that the Government could not, therefore, place it in the hands of Sir John Burgoyne, whose services they wished to have free and immediately available whenever a necessity might arise, for no one could foretell the future, and England might have to exert her strength upon other shores and to send out other expeditions, and the Government deemed it expedient to keep Sir John Burgoyne ever in readiness to take command of an expeditionary force. He had felt the explanations which his Grace had been pleased to give to be at once so satisfactory to the corps of which Sir John Burgoyne was the greatest ornament, and so complimentary to that gallant officer, that he expressed a hope that his Grace would cause a similar explanation to be given in that House, and he understood from his Grace that if he gave notice to the noble Lord the leader of the House of his intention to ask the question, his Grace would arrange that a reply similar in purport should be given. Had that been done, it was most probable that the desultory discussion of which the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had complained would never have taken place; but, instead of giving an explanation similar to that given by the Minister of War, the noble Lord the leader of that House, in the exercise of that discretion which his position and his great experience fully entitled him to use, had confined himself to saying that the appointment of the present Lieutenant General of the Ordnance had been made with the concurrence of Lord Raglan and of Lord Hardinge, and that, of course, the Government could not be expected to give any further explanation of it. He could only express his regret that upon that occasion the noble Lord the leader of the House had not deemed it expedient to give a more full explanation.

COLONEL DUNNE

said, that no one who knew anything of Sir Hew Ross and Sir John Burgoyne but must regard them personally, and entertain the highest regard for their distinguished services. But anything affecting Sir John Burgoyne was strongly felt in Ireland, where it was not forgotten how much he had done during the famine, and whose conduct on that occasion had caused him to be regarded with affection in that country. The whole of the explanation which had been given amounted to this, that Sir John Burgoyne was so useful in his present position that he was a sufferer by it. He wished to ask the hon. Clerk of the Ordnance (Mr. Monsell) how it was intended to dispose of the additional men proposed for the Artillery—were they to be added to each company? He perceived an estimate for a sum to Mr. Whitworth for improvements in gun-barrels, and he wished to urge the necessity of liberality in paying persons who made experiments in improvements of small arms, which he thought should be encouraged as much as possible.

MR. MONSELL

said, that it was intended to add ten men to each company of the Artillery. With regard to the improvement of small arms, he thought no great fault could be found with his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the score of want of liberality, for he had refused him (Mr. Monsell) nothing that he asked since he had been connected with the Ordnance, and large sums had been spent in remunerating persons for successful experiments. It would not, however, do to advance money for the purpose of making experiments. All that the Government could do was to reward those making them when they were successful.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he hoped that the Committee would bear in mind that the case of Sir John Burgoyne ought not to be considered as if it happened when all the military departments were in a fixed state. At that time the change in the department of the War Minister was going on, and there might have been such a rearrangement of departmental offices as might have made it a very left-handed compliment to Sir John Burgoyne to have placed him in a position from which he might in consequence of other changes have been soon removed.

COLONEL DUNNE

said, he did not say that the Crown could not appoint junior officers to commands over the heads of seniors, and, indeed, the Committee of that House had recommended that appointments should be made according to merit and capability. He did not question the prerogative of the Crown in this respect, nor did Sir John Burgoyne.

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, he hoped the Ordnance Department would lose no time in pressing forward the supply of arms from the manufactories of the country.

Vote agreed to; as were also the following votes—

(2.) 58,139l., Charge of additional men, Royal Artillery.

(3.) 31,000l., Small Arm Factory.

(4.) 6,552l., Brevet.

(5.) 840,785l., Customs.

(6.) 479,320l., Coast Guard.

(7.) 1,154,594l., Inland Revenue Department.

(8.) 52,769l., Revenue Police, &c., Ireland.

(9.) 1,525,335l., Post Office.

(10.) 500,000l., Supplies.

House resumed.

House adjourned at ten minutes before Six o'clock.