§ Order for Committee read.
§ House in Committee.
§ MR. CARDWELLstated the nature of the provision which he proposed with respect to the pensioning of the Cinque Port pilots, the object of which would be to place them in the same position as they now occupied. With this view their benevolent fund had been valued by actuaries with reference to their present and future liabilities, on account of allowances to superannuated members of the fellowship. Upon the assumption that these pilots would be entitled to be pensioned at the age of 65, the calculations of the actuaries to whom the matter had been referred, showed that there would be a deficiency in their present benevolent fund to pay those pensions, owing to the falling-off in the sum which had been re- 641 ceived by way of double pilotage since the introduction of reciprocity treaties. New countries had been continually coming into reciprocity, and the consequence had been a constant tendency for that fund to diminish, to such an extent, indeed, that there was 268l. short of the sum necessary to meet the accustomed pensions The principle on which he now proposed to proceed was this, that as far as possible every advantage which everybody would have been entitled to, and would have obtained if the Bill had not passed, should be continued to them under the new arrangement. This he thought was the fair, equitable, right and liberal principle on which the House ought to proceed. The hon. Gentleman the Member for Sandwich (Mr. J. Macgregor had given notice of an Amendment base on this—that every heretofore pension an privilege which they had enjoyed should be continued, and, if there were not means enough elsewhere, that they should be furnished from the Consolidated Fund. But that, he thought, was carrying liberality beyond the bounds of justice and reason. All they were called upon to do was to give everybody as much as they would have had if this Bill had not passed; but they could not go beyond that, an find the means from the Consolidated Fun for giving the pilots advantages which the never could have enjoyed if the Legislature had not interfered. Then, upon the assumption of the actuaries, calculated on the diminished rate of pension which would have been necessary from the cause to which he had alluded, there would be, if the Committee would permit the whole of the money belonging to the Cinque Port pilots to be exhausted in the process, sufficient funds to put everybody in the position he had mentioned. It was his wish that the Court of Loadmanage, who had heretofore been the trustees of those persons, should, if they desired it, take the whole funds in their own management, and so administer them as might seem to them best. He had reason to believe, however, that neither the trustees nor the pilots desired that that administration of the funds should be adopted. In that event, he was willing make this offer, which he believed was reasonable and liberal—that if they thought proper that the trust should be transferred to the Trinity House to be administered, the Board of Trade would regulate the winding up of the fund between the Cinque Port pilots and the Trinity House. The then remained this further question. Of 642 Course, any prospective arrangement based upon the calculations of the actuaries was liable to contingencies. Those contingencies should not fall upon the poor persons who were the subjects of this arrangement, and the Trinity House should be called upon to take the risk of them. This would place the Trinity House in the double position of insuring that the calculations of the actuaries should be made good, while their funds for providing pensions to pilots would be burdened by the new pilots who, when the Cinque Port pilots should die out, would, by the. Bill, be appointed by the Trinity House to replace them. It was right, therefore, that some arrangement should be made whereby the Trinity House should be indemnified from loss. No great sum would be required for this purpose—probably from 5,000l. to 10,000l., which was a very small amount in the great importance of the settlement which would be made with regard to the Trinity House. All that the Committee, therefore, was called upon to sanction was, that the Trinity House should exercise what was now their legal right, the right of transferring from their own balance that moderate sum, to be calculated by the, actuaries, in order to indemnify them from the possibility of loss, and to put the Pilotage Fund upon a satisfactory basis. The result of the whole arrangement would be that the Cinque Port Pilots' Fund would be applied to their use, and they would be put in possession of the same advantages as if the Legislature had not interfered; and the Trinity House, out of their own balance, would apply to the Pilotage Fund the indemnity sum of about 10,000l. The transfer of that sum required no legislative sanction, but only an expression of opinion by the Government, in which they would be guided by the opinion of the Committee.
§ MR. J. MACGREGORappealed to the right hon. Gentleman not to diminish the incomes of the Cinque Port pilots, the records of whose existence were perfect so far back as the year 1426. The custom always had been to give to superannuated Cinque Port pilots 50l. a year till death. There were now fourteen receiving the annuity, and 130 active pilots. No doubt, under the Bill as proposed, the pilots would receive as much as under the strict letter of the law they would be entitled to if the Bill did not pass. He was pleading the cause, however, of a deserving body of men, whose privileges, as a fellowship, dated from time immemorial. The fourteen men 643 who were now superannuated averaged seventy years of age, and the services which they had rendered had been of an important character to the country. He should urge, upon the recommendation of an eminent actuary, that instead of capitalising the fund, the Trinity House should become responsible for the annual payments. The annual sum that would be required to continue the present income of these awed men would be 648l., and that would be a yearly decreasing sum, because as deaths occurred they would not be replaced. The effect of the right hon. Gentleman's measure would be to reduce the income of these deserving men from 50l. to 30l. a year, and he should be sorry that such a proposition should be acted upon. He submitted this consideration to the President of the Board of Trade, believing it would be agreeable to the right hon. Gentleman to receive the pressure of the Committee in favour of these industrious, brave, and meritorious men.