MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. (Hansard, 28 May 1852)

§ MR. KEOGH
said, he understood that in the absence of himself and his friends the adjourned debate on Maynooth College, which stood No. 28 on the paper, had been disposed of, the last order, therefore, having been taken before the other orders. He could scarcely believe that such an advantage had been taken of the absence of the Irish Members. Perhaps the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was above such a trick, would say whether that was the case or not. He was sure the right hon. Gentleman would repudiate such a device.

The CHANCELLOR or THE EXCHEQUER
replied that this matter had been disposed of in the order stated—not, however, by the act of the Government; the hon. Member for Ashton (Mr. Hindley), with whom he had no political connexion, suggested early in the evening that the debate be postponed, and it was adjourned till Friday morning.

§ MR. KEOGH
asked, whether the right hon. Gentleman meant seriously to say that such was the case? [A laugh.] It might be matter of laughter to some Gentlemen opposite; but it was not so to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who knew what was due to his own position better than they did. This was a Government night, the orders were Government orders, and this was a Government business. He was surprised that, when a number of Members had shown themselves interested in the subject, advantage should be taken of their absence to take the business of the House out of its order, and that, having regard to the common rules of courtesy between Gentlemen which were established in that House, hon. Gentlemen should play—he really was ashamed to characterise their conduct in the only way in which he could—really a sort of "thimblerig"—an expression which he was justified in using by the example 1367 of the noble Lord at the head of the Government. He never knew a system more shameful, disgusting, and pettifogging. The moment he and his friends left the House, somebody was sent over to this side of the House—["No, no!"from the Ministerial benches.] Well, they did not send him over; but the right hon. Gentleman said the hon. Member who spoke from this side was a person with whom he had no connexion whatsoever. The Government had perfect control over the paper. The right hon. Gentleman knew that he (Mr. Keogh) and his friends had no more connexion with persons on this side of the House, than with hon. Gentlemen opposite. A more shabby and mean advantage had never been taken.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that it was quite a mistake to suppose that the Orders of the Day were Government orders. A certain number of orders had precedence; but it was open to every hon. Gentleman to add any order in which he was interested to the Government list. The Bishopric of Christchurch Bill, which they had been discussing, was an Order of the Day put on the list by a private Member; and the Pharmacy Bill was another example. The Motion on Maynooth was not a Government measure, and was not put on the paper by them. Early in the evening a question had been put on the subject of the adjourned debate, when he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) mentioned that they proposed to take it on Friday next. No opposition was made to that proposal by the hon. and learned Gentleman.

§ MR.O'FLAHERTY
did not regret that the Government had now shown their colours. He saw they were determined to do everything hostile to the interests of the Roman Catholic people of Ireland; and he would tell them that they had earned for themselves an amount of hostility for which they were not prepared.

§ MR. WALPOLE
observed, that whatever the opinion of hon. Members with respect to the Government and their conduct, it ought to be understood, in fairness to the Government, that there was not a shadow of foundation for the charge made. He could assure hon. Gentlemen that the Government did not take the Order out of its course, and had nothing to do with the proposition which was made. The hon. Member who made it made it of his own accord, without communication with the Government; and so far as the Government 1368 were concerned, they did not wish to preclude hon. Gentlemen from having the fair opportunity they ought to have of discussing the question. He went away for a few minutes to take some refreshment, under the impression that hon. Members and the House were satisfied with the arrangement that the debate was to come on upon Friday next.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
had put a question to the hon. Member for North Warwickshire, early in the evening, whether he had made an arrangement with the Government for bringing on the debate. The answer was, that he had had no communication with the Government upon the subject; it must depend upon what took place when the debate should come on in the course of that night. That was stated in the presence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The right hon. Gentleman had said that all the Orders of the Day were not Government orders, but he found that down to No. 20 they were Government Bills; and yet they permitted No. 28 to be taken out of its order, notwithstanding it was fixed that the debate on that Motion was not to come on till all the other Orders of the Day had been disposed of.

§ MR. KEOGH
begged to move the adjournment of the House, as it was perfectly absurd to proceed further with business at that hour. He felt certain, from the explanation that had been given by the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary, that he had had nothing to do with the shabby trick that had been played upon the Irish Members; but the whole proceeding was unworthy of Her Majesty's Government, and would certainly not meet with the approval of English gentlemen.

§ MR. S. HERBERT
was sure that nothing like a trick was intended by the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary; but if such a practice as that which had been adopted was to be sanctioned, a number of measures might be put down, from which any one might be selected and passed in the absence of parties interested in opposing it. He came down with the intention of moving that the debate be adjourned till the 12th of June, feeling convinced that it could be as usefully discussed then as on Friday next, because he was quite convinced that no division would be taken on that day.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
wished that there should be a fair understanding as to the mode of conducting the public business of the House. 1369 Nothing would induce him to sanction any course which he did not think perfectly fair to hon. Gentlemen, on whatever side of the House they might sit. But both the hon. Gentlemen who had spoken were labouring under a complete mistake. It was not possible to take any order out of the arrangement in the paper, except for the purpose of postponing it; and it was the undoubted privilege of any Member to more that any Order of the Day in which he was interested should be postponed, and which was a Motion no Minister could prevent OF resist. There never was the slightest communication with the Government upon the subject.

§ MR. CHISHOLM ANSTEY
thought there must be some exceptions to that rule. Suppose he had risen early in the evening and moved the New Zealand Bi- shops Bill, would he not have been told that such a course was opposed to the practice of the House?

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, afterwards, with respect to the adjourned debate of Maynooth, if it would better suit the convenience of hon. Members, he would endeavour to fix it for Tuesday instead of Friday.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
was quite willing to leave the matter to be settled by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the originator of the Motion.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
did not wish the House to separate for the holydays under a false impression. He had every wish to accommodate hon. Members with regard to the discussion on the Maynooth question; and when they reassembled he should have no objection to postpone that debate to such further day as might be most convenient to hon. Gentlemen opposite. It might be fixed for, say, Tuesday.

§ MR. WAKLEY
would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman whether it would not be better to adjourn the subject sine die. The Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to know, that whenever the debate might take place, there would be no division upon the Motion. In a medical point of view, hon. Members were destroying their health by this useless discussion.

§ MR. WALPOLE
suggested Tuesday 1370 week for the resumption of the debate, if that would meet general convenience.