HC Deb 06 February 1850 vol 108 cc410-4
The SOLICITOR GENERAL

said, he now rose to ask for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the laws relating to registration in Ireland. He must, in the first instance, explain the peculiar defects of the present system, and then he would state what was the remedy he proposed. The House would observe, that the question of registration was different in England and in Ireland. In England, with the exception of Yorkshire and Middlesex, there was no proper system of registration. In Ireland there was a very stringent system; but it contained several important defects, which it was the object of the present Bill to remedy. In considering what registration should be, the important point was that you should have a register of every document and every fact connected with every person who had dealt with the land, and that those facts should be easily ascertained. The defects of the Irish register were, that the mode of registering was exceedingly inaccurate, and that the facts were most difficult to be got at. What was registered in the first instance was a memorial of the deed. He had not found that there was any desire to suppress facts in those memorials, but the persons registering only inscribed what they thought material, leaving you to ascertain the facts you might require as you best could. The great object in a register was to obtain an entire disclosure of the transaction; but in the present register you had it only mentioned that certain persons had dealt with the land. There were no means of establishing their identity, nor was any description of the lands given; so that whether the whole lands had been dealt with or only part, or whether other lands had been included, you had no means of ascertaining. These difficulties arose from the nature of the indices kept in the Masters' offices. Now, unless you had a register which gave you the particulars of every deed likely to affect you, such register was only calculated to be a snare to the purchasers of land; and it would be better to have no register at all. To the Irish register as at present kept, there were two indices—an index of names and an index of places. The difficulties in the index of names were so great that it was almost impossible to establish the identity of the name on the register with the person who had dealt with the land. Perhaps, in corroboration of this view, he might quote a short extract from the report of the Committee on real property. [The hon. and learned Gentleman here read the extract, the effect of which was to show that the frequent recurrence of common names on the register, rendered the establishment of identity very difficult, and, in some cases, impossible.] Under these circumstances, wherever the title was complicated, the expense of search was enormous. On the index of the Middlesex register there were 50 pages occupied with one letter, and only 39 different names in the whole. A search consequently sometimes occupied ten days, and cost 200l. or 300l. In some cases, when the name was a common one, the establishment of identity became impossible. The index of places also, when improperly managed, became a great evil. The original statute establishing a register of lands in Ireland, the 6th Anne, c. 2, evidently contemplated a very complete system of registration, for it enacted, that a calendar of the lands should be appended, giving the baronies and all other necessary details. That, however, had not been the practice with the Irish register, but merely the keeping an index of the lands from year to year; the result was, that it never could be ascertained whether the property had been dealt with without making what was called the negative search, and ascertaining the names of all persons who might have an interest in the property. The expense of this was often enormous. Mr. Pierce Mahoney had, in his evidence, instanced one search of which the cost was 2,000l. This operated so as to make it impossible to dispose of small properties at all, the expense of search being the same with a property worth half a million and one worth half a thousand. Who would think of selling a property worth 500l. if the expense of searches was to be from 300l. to 400l.? This evil was so great, that it was a matter for consideration whether or no it would be better to abolish the system of registration in Ireland altogether. He would now state the remedies which he proposed. He should mention, however, that the plan upon which they proceeded was founded to some extent on that which was adopted by a gentleman, now unhappily deceased, who was an eminent member of the Real Property Commission, Mr. Duval, and who, it might be remembered, had prepared a Bill for registering all property in England and Wales. But it was thought, that in some respects the machinery of that Bill was cumbersome, and inadequate to meet the object in view. Therefore in some particulars the plan of that measure had been departed from. It was proposed by the measure he was about to introduce, to make use, in the first place, of the trigonometrical survey which had been made in Ireland by the Ordnance Department, for the purpose of forming a complete land index. They proposed to make use of the maps which had been prepared under that survey, and to provide that the commissioners, or whoever should have the management of that registration, should have indices based on those maps—that was to say, taking any particular county, and in such county any particular barony, and descending to the townlands and the sub-denominations to the property to be registered, and so make a regular index of all in reference to the map. In that case they would have figures or letters which would correspond with those on the map to describe the particular part of the land, and the division in which it was placed. Then he proposed to have a reference from this land index to another index, which should be called an index of titles, in which the letters and figures would correspond with the first, and which would show the manner in which the land had been dealt with—that was, it would there appear that A B, for instance, had bought or sold to C D a certain property, in a certain town-land, barony, or county. By this means a full index of all particulars relating to the property, and a ready reference to the deed in the office, would be obtained. In this index of title they proceeded very much on the plan drawn up by Mr. Duval, in his Bill. Where two properties afterwards became united, the one being in one index and another in another, a new heading might be opened, so as to bring them together. He would not go further into these matters of detail, but might state generally that the Bill proceeded in this respect on the principle of a ledger account —there should be first an index of land, to show what the property was, which would be tested by an index of title. It would also be necessary to have a further index where the ability to deal with the land was temporarily or permanently suspended, as, for instance, in the case of the grantor dying, and some person coming forward to claim the property or any part of it, either in the character of heir or devisee. In that case it would be necessary to have an index of wills with reference to the testator's name, and the day on which the will was registered. Any person then could readily ascertain what were the intentions of the testator, and what title was given under the will. In this country there was a most perfect system of registration of wills, which had been framed for fiscal purposes only, under which any will could be found in a moment, together with the name of the testator and executors. And the experience of that system in this country induced him to propose its extension to Ireland. Another case of disability must also be provided for, as that of bankrupts or insolvents. An index of such names would enable persons to ascertain without much difficulty how land had been dealt with under bankruptcy or insolvency, and whether any person who claimed to deal with the land had a right to do so. The House would be aware that there were instances in which the surface of the land might be in the possession of one person, and that rights arising out of the same property might be vested in others—as in the case of mines—and if they had only such an index as he had stated, they would have an account only of how the surface had been dealt with; but under another letter he proposed to provide the means of ascertaining how the minerals or any rent-charge arising out of the land, which lawyers termed incorporeal hereditaments, had been dealt with. It was proposed also that the documents which were registered under this Bill, should have priority over all other registration documents; for if the doctrine of notice, as it was called by the courts of equity, were allowed to intervene, it would put an end to any efficient system of registration whatever. It was proposed to put an end to the doctrine of notices, decrees of court, civil-bill processes, and the like; and it would be open for any person to ascertain at once the true history of the land he was about to purchase without difficulty or expense. It was the more important that such a provision should be made now that the Act for the sale of en- cumbered estates was in operation, as under that Act a clear and unencumbered title would be given; and as it was important to preserve it, they would have the opportunity of doing so, now by this system of registration, which he believed would remove the evils which existed under the present system, and at the same time secure perfect facilities of ascertaining the real title of the property so as to make it a marketable commodity in the hands of the owner. That was the object of the measure, and under it he believed it would no longer be necessary to have those voluminous and complicated deeds which in Ireland far exceeded anything that was known in this country, extending as it often did to several sets of deeds executed by several sets of parties for the conveyance of one estate. He hoped the House would allow him to introduce the measure, and they would hereafter have an opportunity of examining the details as to how far they bore out the statement he had made, and the objects the Government had in view.

Leave given.