§ On the question that the House do resolve itself into a Committee of Supply,
§ MR. P. SCROPErose to move an humble Address to Her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to direct an indictment to be preferred by Her Majesty's law officers against the parties concerned in the illegal destruction of several houses, and the forcible ejectment of their inmates, which took place within the union of Galway, on or about New Year's day last, and which appears to have occasioned the deaths of several of the unfortunate beings so ill-treated, by the evidence taken on oath before Major M'Kie, poor-law inspector of the union, by order of the Commissioners; which evidence is printed at length in p. 467 of the fifth series of papers relating to the relief of distress and state of the unions in Ireland; thereby to show, by a practical example to the 1007 people of Ireland, that the law affords its protection to the lives and property of the poor as well as of the rich, and that it can and will be enforced by the Government when broken against the one no less than against the other. It was a question of the very highest importance—a subject of the most serious and weighty character. The facts on which he relied affected those very classes in Ireland who deserved the most attentive consideration of the House. It was the poorest of the people in that unhappy land who had been thrust out of their houses at the dead of night, and left houseless wanderers on the face of the earth. With guards of the military and police, they were sent out of their houses, and with a small sum of money, were left to wander over the world. Several attempts of the hon. Member to read some extracts having been met with opposition, he concluded by putting the Motion of which he had given notice.
§ MR. E. B. ROCHErose to encourage the hon. Member to proceed in his Motion. He hoped, notwithstanding the impatience of the House, and the unwillingness with which they had heard the hon. Member, that he would press this question, which was one of the greatest importance to the poor people of Ireland. The houses of the poor were pulled down without either justice or law, and he submitted that the hon. Member should be heard on the Address.
The ATTORNEY GENERALthought that he could relieve the hon. Gentleman from the difficulty in which he was placed. He had asked whether an indictment was to be preferred by the law officers of the Crown against the parties concerned in the illegal destruction of several houses in Gal-way, as appeared by the evidence taken before Major M'Kie, the poor-law inspector of the union of Galway. There was no doubt of the law upon the subject. If a landlord gave a notice to quit to a tenant, after the period of his tenancy had expired, such landlord had a perfect right to enter the premises, provided he did so peaceably. If he entered by force he might be indicted for such forcible entry; and if a riot was occasioned, the party might be indicted for a riot. If, on the other hand, the entry was made before the notice to quit had expired, and before the term for which the tenant held his lease had ended, the tenant was entitled to a civil remedy. Of the law there was no doubt whatever. He apprehended that it was not usual in this country, certainly not in Ireland, to make 1008 any amount of private wrong the subject of a public indictment.
§ MR. S. CRAWFORDcomplained that in a case of such atrocity the House was told that it was not the duty of the Government to institute an inquiry. He knew it was an indictable offence, as the Attorney General had stated, and that the parties might be taken before a magistrate; but what were the poor people to do when the magistrate himself was the party concerned in the ejectment? for Mr. Blake, who was the party accused of this inhuman act, was himself in the commission of the peace. He considered it was the duty of the Government immediately to send down a Commission to find who was to blame.
The EARL of ARUNDEL and SURREYhad seen the evidence relating to this monstrously cruel transaction; and if it were not the practice of Government to indict in such cases, the sooner that became the practice the better.
§ MR. REYNOLDSsaid, this was a question of far more importance than the one which had engaged the attention of the House for the last five hours. They had been discussing African slavery; but he must be permitted to ask whether Irish slavery, and the murder of the Irish people, were not more important than the mitigation of African slavery? He had heard with deep regret the reply of Her Majesty's Attorney General, that the only remedy in this dreadful case was to be obtained by resorting to what was called the ordinary operation of the law, as that amounted to the fact that there was no redress at all, considering the power of the oppressor and the weakness of the oppressed. The accused in this case, Mr. Blake, a magistrate of the county of Galway, had admitted in the evidence that he had unhoused the people without the sanction of either law or justice, and sent them forth upon the wide world in the inclement month of December, and that lives had been sacrificed in consequence. If there were no law to punish this conduct, he would still ask the Government whether this magistrate was to be allowed to remain in the commission of the peace? He recollected that Mr. Alexander O'Driscoll, a Cork magistrate, had been dismissed for striking a boy while he was engaged in his magisterial duties; but that offence was a most venial one compared to that of Mr. Blake. He cautioned the House against passing over the offence of Mr. Blake, for if they did, it would teach the people of Ireland that they were to 1009 have no redress under such atrocious circumstances, and their confidence in the justice of that House, which was every day diminishing, would become
Small by degrees, and beautifully less.He appealed to the House whether it was not indispensably necessary to institute an inquiry, and called upon the Government, if it had no power to prosecute, to do the next best thing, and dismiss Mr. Blake from his office as a magistrate, since he was charged with the commission of a most atrocious offence, on the authority of Major M'Kie, a gentleman holding a commission in Her Majesty's service.
§ SIR R. PEELI can easily believe that the hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney General is perfectly correct in stating that, according to the existing law, the Government cannot interfere in this matter; but if that be so, it is the more incumbent upon us, when cases of this kind are brought under the notice of the House, where the law affords no remedy, and where the Government are powerless, to exercise at any rate the moral power which we possess, by marking our indignation against such occurrences. I shall read to the House what is the report of a military man on the case—a person employed by Government, and in whose statements apparently the utmost confidence may be placed; and I doubt whether in any country calling itself civilised, a case of more grievous injustice ever occurred. Major M'Kie, in his report to the Poor Law Commissioners, stated, that—
It would appear from the evidence recorded, that the forcible ejectments were illegal; that previous notices had not been served; and that the ejectments were perpetrated under circumstances of great cruelty. The time chosen was for the greater part nightfall on the eve of the new year. The occupiers were forced out of their houses with their helpless children, and left exposed to the cold on a bleak western shore in a stormy winter's night; that some of the children were sick; that the parents implored that they might not be exposed, and their houses left till the morning; that their prayers for mercy were vain; and that many of them have since died. I have visited the ruins of these huts (not at any great distance from Mr. Blake's residence); I found that many of these unfortunate people were still living within the ruins of those huts, endeavouring to shelter themselves under a few sticks and sods, all in the most wretched state of destitution; many were so weak that they could scarcely stand when giving their evidence. The site of these ruins is a rocky wild spot, fit for nothing but a sheep walk.That these ejectments were illegal is expressly stated in the report of this gentleman 1010 to the Commissioners. I know, however, that the law is powerless in procuring redress in such cases; but I know also, that the mere statement of the facts in the House of Commons, accompanied with the expression of such feelings as can alone he excited when such facts are narrated to us, will not be without its influence; and I must say that we owe an obligation to the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Scrope) for bringing forwerd this Motion; for not having permitted this ponderous volume to rest in oblivion; and for having invited us, by our comments, to mark our sense of the proceedings referred to.
§ MR. HUMEwished to ask whether there was any Government in Ireland, and if so, why it did not deem it a duty to interfere in such a case as this? Were there any public officers to take cognizance of these things? If not, would it not be much better to let the people of Ireland govern themselves, than to allow such scenes as those they had heard described to-night occur again? He was not at all surprised that there should be a call for a repeal of the Union. They had, in the course of their debates, spoken of the sufferings of slaves in the middle passage; but they had now evidence that even more grievous sufferings might have to be endured in the midst of civilised life. This was a case which put the Government on their trial. Why, he would ask, had not the Government, through their officers, taken cognizance of these outrages against the common feelings of humanity? He trusted Her Majesty's Ministers would not rely upon moral influence alone, as suggested by the right hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth; but that, if the law was not sufficient to protect the poor and helpless from the tyranny of their landlords, the Government would at once bring in a measure to afford them that protection. He was quite shocked at the statements he had heard; he was not aware of anything having occurred of so distressing a nature; and he hoped the Government would not lose a day before devising means for preventing the recurrence of such outrages against the people.
§ SIR G. GREYsaid, it was quite evident the hon. Member for Montrose had not read the papers that were before the House relating to these occurrences. If he had, the hon. Gentleman would have seen that it was through the instrumentality of the Government that the statement of facts which had so strongly excited his indignation 1011 had been disclosed. The question with reference to the conduct of Mr. Blake simply was, whether he had, as alleged, illegally destroyed these houses? That question had been submitted to the law officers of the Crown; and, in the absence of the Attorney General, he (Sir G. Grey) on a former occasion ventured to say that upon the statement of the facts, the Government had no power to institute a criminal prosecution against Mr. Blake for what he had done. His hon. and learned Friend had since then declared that the opinion which he (Sir G. Grey) gave was perfectly correct. At the same time, he (Sir G. Grey) expressed his opinion as to the character of the facts. He did not at all conceal the opinion he entertained as to the nature of those proceedings. His right hon. Friend (Sir W. Somerville) was at present in communication with the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland respecting the facts which had been brought under his consideration; and if it were practicable for any proceedings to be taken in regard to them, there could be no doubt that the Irish Government would immediately institute such proceedings. He (Sir G. Grey) had himself personally communicated with Mr. Hatchell, the Solicitor General for Ireland, and that learned Gentleman had told him that his attention had already been directed to a case of a similar character—that of Mr. St. George, which had been alluded to on a former occasion—and his (Mr. Hatchell's) opinion was, that although there was a case of apparent illegality, yet there was not, in fact, any case of real illegality. The circumstances were these: the middleman was legally ejected, and those who held under him were necessarily ejected also, the latter parties not being entitled to any notice to quit from the superior landlord. He mentioned this to show that there were no legal means at present existing to check proceedings of this kind; at the same time, he hoped it would convince hon. Members that it was not to be assumed there were obvious cases of criminality which might have been prosecuted, but that the Government had shrunk from discharging their duty in that respect.
§ MR. STAFFORDsaid, that the whole conduct of the Government, both in relation to this atrocious affair, and to the administration of the poor-law generally, acquitted them entirely of the charges made against them. It was not to be expected that these ponderous blue volumes should be waded though except by those who had 1012 a local interest in the details; but he called upon the House and the country to remember how the Irish Members had acted on a former occasion. They had been told that cases like this would happen; and when the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry was pressed upon the Government and the House, that Committee was refused. He did not now impugn the wisdom of this refusal; but he called attention to the way in which the arrangements then made told on this inhuman and cruel transaction. If a smaller area of taxation had been agreed to, Mr. Blake would have had to bear the burden of his own poor, and not have been enabled to cast out his impoverished tenantry to be supported by others. He was sure that the disinclination the House had shown to listen to the hon. Member (Mr. Scrope) arose from its unwillingness to discuss incidentally a matter which called for a graver treatment and a different temper than the House could be expected to give at so advanced a period of the evening.
§ MR. O'CONNORcondemned the Attorney General for the heartless manner in which he got up and told the House that there was no law in existence to meet the case. If property had been touched, there would have been a law, or, if not, one would have been quickly proposed; but when the lives of the poor Irish were at stake, the House treated the matter with cold indifference. He would tell the Government that theirs was an exterminating Government, and that they refused to look after the interests of the people, though they were dying by thousands every day, while the landlords received every advantage they asked. He felt insulted as an Irishman when he saw the people starving upon a land large enough and fertile enough to maintain them all in affluence, contentment, comfort, and peace. Let the Government look to what was passing in other countries, and then say whether this was a time to trifle with the people. They sympathised with Poland; but while Poland was redolent only of the fresh blood of the martyrs who had fallen for their country, Ireland was stinking with the decomposed carcases of her starving people, who had been cut off by famine, "unhouselled, unanointed, unannealed." ["Oh! oh!"] It was the truth; ten persons had been buried in one coffin.
§ SIR H. VERNEYsaid, that hon. Members who had talked of Poland and of slavery could not say that any hon. Gentleman 1013 in that House had ever said that those topics were of more importance than the prosperity, the comforts, and the advancement in civilisation of their Irish fellow-subjects. On the contrary, the deepest anxiety had always been manifested; and he believed, from the bottom of his heart, that the sentiments, the opinions, and the statements of the hon. Member opposite (Mr. O'Connor) were entirely destitute of foundation. He believed he spoke the sentiments of every English Gentleman in the House, that they desired to go hand in hand with Ireland to assist her and promote her prosperity. Under the providence of God, they possessed institutions which were the blessing of the country, and which other countries were now endeavouring to secure.
§ MR. OSBORNEthanked the hon. Member for Stroud for having brought forward this charge. He (Mr. Osborne) was not previously aware that such statements as that which the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth had made were contained in the report; and he would ask the Government whether the Lord Chancellor had communicated with Mr. Blake, respecting his situation in the commission of the peace; for if he were cognizant of those proceedings he ought to be dismissed; and, if there were any law in Ireland, he ought to be prosecuted. He found that the son of Mr. Blake, not content with turning the people out of their houses, had actually beaten one within an inch of his life; and if the House did not interfere from motives of humanity, it ought from motives of selfishness; for it could not be expected that if such atrocities were perpetrated with impunity, the people of Ireland would remain contented. He wished to hold no violent language; but, he did gay, that unless the Government took up this subject with a strong hand, and instituted a searching inquiry, it would be impossible to answer for the peace of Ireland from day to day.
§ COLONEL DUNNEexpressed his abhorrence of the atrocities that were stated to have been committed.
§ MR. MONSELLsaid, it appeared that the people who were turned out and who died, did not die from want, but from exposure to the weather, being turned out in the middle of the night in snow and rain; and he believed that if the Government acted with vigour, they would establish against the persons guilty of these atrocities the crime of manslaughter. But, although 1014 the Government had been in possession of these facts for months, no steps had been taken to punish the parties concerned in them. He entreated the Government to attend to this, and let the Irish people see that their lives were as much the care of the Government as those of any other persons in the empire.
§ SIR W. SOMERVILLEcould not say whether those persons could be punished by law; but the attention of his right hon. Friend the Attorney General had been called to it, and the circumstances were now under his consideration.
§ MR. P. SCROPEreplied, his object was attained by calling attention to the subject. If the law to punish did exist, let it be vindicated, if not, let a law be passed to do justice to all—to the poor as well as to the rich.
Subject at an end.